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Thank your reply Curious.Curious wrote:
Hi Sayed
If you filled the form in then it wasn't a parental mistake, it must have been yours. Why did you put Camp Hill lower than Rawletts? I would have thought you would do it the other way round if you went to Rawletts and didn't want your sister to go there, or that you would not apply there at all? If you're appealing you are bound to be asked about this. By the way, with regard to your previous post the school can't refuse you an appeal, it is the panel not the school who decide whether to give a place.
I went to wilnecote high school just for the record. And yeah it was my fault as I though that once you pass a grammar school exam, you get an offer similar to university application process - I filled it in while sorting out my own uni application. I wish that g-dforshaken school hadn't been put there (rawlett).
puzzled
I'm a little puzzled by this Sayed - in earlier posts I thought you said you had already been to medical school, not filling in UCAS forms last autumn, which would mean you are now revising for A Levels....I filled it in while sorting out my own uni application
It may be a that a possible case to make at the appeal is to try and gain sympathy for the mistake which you are clearly very angry about.The panel will want to ask why your parents weren't involved in completing the form. Do they have difficulty understanding complicated forms? Do you have official parental responsibility for your sister for some reason? Did you receive misleading advice?
Re: puzzled
THank you for your reply.solimum wrote:
I'm a little puzzled by this Sayed - in earlier posts I thought you said you had already been to medical school, not filling in UCAS forms last autumn, which would mean you are now revising for A Levels....
It may be a that a possible case to make at the appeal is to try and gain sympathy for the mistake which you are clearly very angry about.The panel will want to ask why your parents weren't involved in completing the form. Do they have difficulty understanding complicated forms? Do you have official parental responsibility for your sister for some reason? Did you receive misleading advice?
Yeah I'm in the first year at med school. I should have been more clear, I had to sort out accomodation, finance, student banking as well as my brothers, working nearly fully time, still volunteering with st john's, et cetera.
My mother only signed the form she can't write unfortunately. My father didn't know of it as he works pretty much 24/7 and previously he was abroad for 5 months due to a family crisis so didn't even look at this. I don't have offical responsibility over my sister but had a ever-so slight understanding of the school application process i.e. fill out the application and fill it in.
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Guest
Sayed, I am parent Governor, and I would want to know on what basis you were making an appeal. What is you evidence for the appeal, as the opposing team will also have the same. As I understand it, the reasons you have stated so far do amount to much, as there other famalies with similar pressures, with parents who can't read and write.
You must have attended the open days at the KE6 schools, where the head teacher must have stressed the importance of choice ranking. You have found this forum, therefore you know more or less what the grammar school system is. There is a booklet that is provided with the application form from your sister's school and the LEA when applying gfor the secondary school, which highlights examples of selection and priority.
Your appeal is weak, and if you use grounds of discrimination etc, etc I wouldn't even consider hearing the appeal. There has to be substantial EVIDENCE!!
You've obviously managed to get into Med school, so the school you went to must be good, why can't your sistter go there?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/e ... ml/860.stm
You have uphill struglle I am afraid. There is a thing called buyer-be-aware, and unfortunately, eduaction is a very competitve field.
Good luck with your stratgey.
You must have attended the open days at the KE6 schools, where the head teacher must have stressed the importance of choice ranking. You have found this forum, therefore you know more or less what the grammar school system is. There is a booklet that is provided with the application form from your sister's school and the LEA when applying gfor the secondary school, which highlights examples of selection and priority.
Your appeal is weak, and if you use grounds of discrimination etc, etc I wouldn't even consider hearing the appeal. There has to be substantial EVIDENCE!!
You've obviously managed to get into Med school, so the school you went to must be good, why can't your sistter go there?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/e ... ml/860.stm
You have uphill struglle I am afraid. There is a thing called buyer-be-aware, and unfortunately, eduaction is a very competitve field.
Good luck with your stratgey.
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Jed
I think some of the assessments of Sayed are unfair. He is obviously struggling to try and keep his family together and acting as de facto head of family much of the time. His mother can't write English and his father is out of the country for months. He himself is young - maybe 19 or 20.
I know of parents around here who made exactly the same mistake on their CAFs, ie believed that they MUST put the local catchment school first or risk losing a place altogether, even though this is not the case in equal preference. I personally failed to convince a fellow parent of this and they then lost out on a place in a better school because of it. I also know that some primary and secondary heads gave out wrong information in the first couple of years of equal preference, not really understanding it themselves. And these parents and heads have the advantage of experience and age over Sayed.
We have to be careful of judging those who are not as closely involved in education as ourselves. If I were on a panel, I would think carefully about penalising the daughter because her brother had tried to help but made a genuine error of judgement in filling out the form.
Jed
I know of parents around here who made exactly the same mistake on their CAFs, ie believed that they MUST put the local catchment school first or risk losing a place altogether, even though this is not the case in equal preference. I personally failed to convince a fellow parent of this and they then lost out on a place in a better school because of it. I also know that some primary and secondary heads gave out wrong information in the first couple of years of equal preference, not really understanding it themselves. And these parents and heads have the advantage of experience and age over Sayed.
We have to be careful of judging those who are not as closely involved in education as ourselves. If I were on a panel, I would think carefully about penalising the daughter because her brother had tried to help but made a genuine error of judgement in filling out the form.
Jed
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Guest
Yes, agree, but try explaining to the parent of a child who did every thing by book and has to loose to this appeal on the basis of a mistake? If you were the parent in this situation, I think you would less understanding. As I said, the competition is high and unfortunately, you have to know the rules, ignorance is not a basisfor an appeal.
solimum
If Sayed's sister does gain a place on appeal (and I sincerely hope she does) it would not mean another child who has already been offered a place losing it at this stage. Many people struggle with completing official forms (have you tried applying for a passport recently!) and I can quite understand how this could have happened, particularly if Sayed's family are not part of the "usual circles" of parents who plan their education strategies from before birth - or even pick up what's going on from playground gossip. I really do sympathise with you having to cope with this at the same time as your own studies: I have a son the same age at university and I know how difficult he finds it dealing with bureacracy!
Remember Sayed it's the school you have to appeal to: your local LEA has nothing to do with it and cannot stop you. You will have to throw yourself on the mercy of the panel, explain the extenuating circumstances, the difficulties you and your parents have had, and try not to get angry. Perhaps Capers who is an appeal panel member herself could give more specific advice. IN any case you should ask to keep her on the waiting list of this school, and possibly others in the KE group.
But if it doesn't work out, please don't despair. Your sister has a fine example of triumph over adversity to follow in your success: it may be that she can find enough like-minded bright girls at the local school to encourage her, or if your parents are prepared to move at a later stage there are many other good schools in the W Midlands where she will have every chance of succeeding - you would need to speak to the other LEAs at the time and ask where there might be vacancies in her age group.
Best wishes to you all
Remember Sayed it's the school you have to appeal to: your local LEA has nothing to do with it and cannot stop you. You will have to throw yourself on the mercy of the panel, explain the extenuating circumstances, the difficulties you and your parents have had, and try not to get angry. Perhaps Capers who is an appeal panel member herself could give more specific advice. IN any case you should ask to keep her on the waiting list of this school, and possibly others in the KE group.
But if it doesn't work out, please don't despair. Your sister has a fine example of triumph over adversity to follow in your success: it may be that she can find enough like-minded bright girls at the local school to encourage her, or if your parents are prepared to move at a later stage there are many other good schools in the W Midlands where she will have every chance of succeeding - you would need to speak to the other LEAs at the time and ask where there might be vacancies in her age group.
Best wishes to you all
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Guest
Solimum, I can appreciate your view in terms of fair play. However, take an example of two appeal cases, one being Sayed and his sister, the other being a.n.other, who has filled in the application to the rules and by the book. Which has the stronger case for an appeal to KE6? An appeal is based on sound evidence, which has to demonstrate, that after all the channels and protocoals were met, and adhered to, there is a case for appeal becuase the system has failed the individual, NOT the other way round.
If you buy a product and it is not fit for purpose than you are entitled to a refund/excahnge, howevere, if you abuse the product and ask for the same, you don't have the entiltment.
If your child takes a test, fails because she/he were ill or the circumstances suggested a genuine case which had a negative impact on their performance, you could use school evidence, if the child is bright, to put an appeal together. But, to use filling in the forms incorrectly and not speaking english as a base is unfair. My parenst are not educated either, and there are many children who will be in the same boat at one of the KE6 schools.
I sympathsise with the case, but the appeal panel will not entertain these type of appeals.
If you buy a product and it is not fit for purpose than you are entitled to a refund/excahnge, howevere, if you abuse the product and ask for the same, you don't have the entiltment.
If your child takes a test, fails because she/he were ill or the circumstances suggested a genuine case which had a negative impact on their performance, you could use school evidence, if the child is bright, to put an appeal together. But, to use filling in the forms incorrectly and not speaking english as a base is unfair. My parenst are not educated either, and there are many children who will be in the same boat at one of the KE6 schools.
I sympathsise with the case, but the appeal panel will not entertain these type of appeals.
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Jed
Guest panel member
In many areas appeals would be judged in their own right rather than in comparison with other appellants. But I know that foundation schools are different and perhaps you are perhaps expected to judge appeals against each other on the basis of places available.
In the comparison you mentioned, you don't give an example of the grounds for appeal for the couple who filled in the form correctly? Why are they appealing? Because their child came close to the pass mark? If so, you are comparing a child who came close to the pass mark and would have got in had he/she achieved the mark with one who DID achieve the mark but whose family failed to fill the form correctly through extenuating circumstances. Now who do you award the place to?
I don't think you can really compare a child's education to buying a fridge-freezer. It clearly wasn't the girl's fault and I think the case should be given a fair hearing.
Jed
In many areas appeals would be judged in their own right rather than in comparison with other appellants. But I know that foundation schools are different and perhaps you are perhaps expected to judge appeals against each other on the basis of places available.
In the comparison you mentioned, you don't give an example of the grounds for appeal for the couple who filled in the form correctly? Why are they appealing? Because their child came close to the pass mark? If so, you are comparing a child who came close to the pass mark and would have got in had he/she achieved the mark with one who DID achieve the mark but whose family failed to fill the form correctly through extenuating circumstances. Now who do you award the place to?
I don't think you can really compare a child's education to buying a fridge-freezer. It clearly wasn't the girl's fault and I think the case should be given a fair hearing.
Jed
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Jed
Sayed
I agree with Solimum. Keep calm. Admit it was your fault but explain honestly how it happened and that you feel your sister would be best placed at a grammar and should not be penalised because you misunderstood how to place the schools in the order of preference. Say you are angry with yourself, maybe, but try not to lay the blame elsewhere.
I do agree with the guest panel member that it won't help to claim 'discrimination' or try to put the situation across as some sort of a conspiracy against you and your family.
Good luck.
Jed
I agree with Solimum. Keep calm. Admit it was your fault but explain honestly how it happened and that you feel your sister would be best placed at a grammar and should not be penalised because you misunderstood how to place the schools in the order of preference. Say you are angry with yourself, maybe, but try not to lay the blame elsewhere.
I do agree with the guest panel member that it won't help to claim 'discrimination' or try to put the situation across as some sort of a conspiracy against you and your family.
Good luck.
Jed
