Sats and Grammar Place

[DIY Mum]

I didn't get round to using SAT papers as a form of preparation for the KE exams. But with hindsight, maybe I should have used some of the comprehension papers or spelling tests with DS2 as English is definitely his achilles heel!

There's certainly much more of a focus upon the English in light of the new weighting of marks from the recent KE exam.

If you're going for KES, then it would be useful to do some of the SAT composition papers.

I'm not sure what you mean by the level being 'far too low'.

[JaneEyre]

I'm not sure what you mean by the level being 'far too low'.

I was referring to the level in maths of KS2 SATs papers. As Um pointed out, it is not uncommon for ‘bright*’ children to reach a high level 5 during or at the end of year 5, without this guarantying a good pass at the 11+ exam.

Hence my question about the KS2 SATs English papers. Are these far below the level of 11+ comprehension tests in term of vocabulary and inference? Or are they relevant to the 11+ preparation, even though they are long texts?

* I hate that term as each child is unique and has his own talent. I really hope that the little dancer with autism whom we saw yesterday on BGT will reach the finals!

[JaneEyre]

You could ask the school about the new level 6 tests. http://www.qcda.gov.uk/assessment/7602.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is this website only for teachers, or can I access it as a mum, creating my own password?

[no_ball]

personally speaking, possibly substitute 'too low' for not challenging enough when it comes to the test standard as set by Durham Uni for the King Edward Grammar tests.. I remember this time last year and using as much varies test papers as possible as information on the composition and pitch of the CEM test is such a mystery. This is the one piece of advice that I can offer, variety as much as anything.

Bond papers should be finished by start of summer and then onto the Multiple Choice type papers found on this site, *** Advertising Censored *** and most bookshops etc..

[fm]

While you may argue all practice is good, I would not say SATS papers are especially relevant. They tend to ask about style of writing, presentation of text, words used, how the author conveyed their message, or comparison between differents sections in the booklet as in target audience and purpose of author. The texts themselves do not tend to be very challenging (although working out what the questions want can be which is why schools practise them--as in learning to wallk the walk, and talk the talk) and the time allowances are generous.

[JaneEyre]

personally speaking, possibly substitute 'too low' for not challenging enough when it comes to the test standard as set by Durham Uni for the King Edward Grammar tests

Yes, sorry, you're right.. I was translating word for word from my mother tongue...

While you may argue all practice is good, I would not say SATS papers are especially relevant. They tend to ask about style of writing, presentation of text, words used, how the author conveyed their message, or comparison between differents sections in the booklet as in target audience and purpose of author.

Are the questions in 11+ exams ONLY about the meaning, whether apparent or hidden? So purely comprehension?

[no_ball]

I think inference plays a large part in the comprehension section certainly for indie exams.

[mike1880]

SATS papers have to cover the entire range of ability (and 30%+ will achieve a level 5 in SATS), so the overall level of challenge can't match that of a paper designed to stretch the top ~25% such as the CEM test or one of the academic indies. And they are testing slightly different things - all/most entrance tests claim to be trying (although perhaps with varying success) to assess potential, not attainment, whereas SATS are very definitely trying to assess attainment, and that in a fairly narrowly defined set of skills.

Mike

[JaneEyre]

Thanks for all your comments!

they are testing slightly different things - all/most entrance tests claim to be trying (although perhaps with varying success) to assess potential, not attainment, whereas SATS are very definitely trying to assess attainment, and that in a fairly narrowly defined set of skills. Mike

Ok, I see that the level of difficulty in SATs english comprehension is far less challenging (I am progressing no-ball! ) than the 11+ exams.

However, Mike, I am surprised that you state that 11+ exams assess potential, not attainment. I always considered that they assess attainment whilst the public schools do assess potential + attainment! (as for SATs, it is definitively attainment in a broad spectrum of abilities)

[mike1880]

If they were testing anything other than potential our eldest would be at a comp. Definitely potential, not attainment...

Mike