Camp Hill Boys

[reeyah]

True Yasmin151. The ones who pass, do well because they have a natural flair anyway, and the tutoring they have just brings out the best in them. One can tutor a below average child until the cows come home, but it won't change them drastically. I know that from DS2. He simply doesn't 'get' maths, and never will until it naturally happens. However, he was exceptionally lucky that his VR is very very strong. Again, it's strong naturally, and any tuition he had for that definitely helped nurture his gift for words.

I used it think tutoring actually 'changed' children , but not any more. It certainly can help, and support, but I haven't seen it drastically change my DSs. Mind you, they are so lazy it's unbelievable!

[blackwidow]

I beg to differ. Give me a below average child and work with him/her from year 4, give then an ethos of work and watch that child flourish. The CEM Centre exams are NOT an indication of natural ability. Do not believe what they claim. They are simply a test of how well a child has been prepared.

I simply do not believe many children in a standard state comprehensive school doing no extra work would score well in the maths section. I believe to score high enough for Camp Hill one has to be at level 6 maths or 5A at the least by the time the test is taken. This requires preparation and covering year 6 by yourself. How is this an indication of natural ability? It is simply a poor test.

Rumours were in 2012 Warks exam the average maths score was less than 25% and highest a tad over 50%. How is this a measure of natural ability? Are you saying Wark children are not clever enough? I would say the test was too hard and above what a child would be expected to cope with, whether prepared or not. Hardly a test on natural ability.

I firmly believe the CEM Centre test is hard, but one of the easiest tests to prepare for. Maths - cover year 6. NVR - just practice Bond (questions are easier than this - and NVR techniques can be taught). English, extend vocabulary - read - read - read then practice cloze, synonyms, antonyms and a bit of comprehension.

I know this from my own experience. My child just did not get maths and had a poor vocabulary, then I taught him and he began to understand and kept practising and did very well. He scored equally in all sections. That's not natural ability - that's preparation by parents!

[sbarnes]

And to add insult to injury, being an avid reader counts for nothing in passing the CEM test. This is from personal experience.

[blackwidow]

It really depends what you read and how varied the material you read is. I can believe an avid reader would lose out if he did not retain and "learn" meanings.

I used an online system to build vocabulary and practise synonyms, antonyms, cloze and comprehension. Quite a few words came up. This was lucky and well worth the cost.

[reeyah]

Blackwidow, maths can certainly be taught, but a child who is just not ready won't retain that information..you can't actually 'make' them understand. You mention the magic words 'work ethos'.. that's another thing which simply can't just be given to a child. You were obviously lucky with yours, it looks like they willingly worked hard.


You can now let the rest of know how your DC is getting on at Grammar school once they are there. Especially if you are suggesting they only got there through tuition?

[blackwidow]

The DC is fine. Top set in maths and doing very well. Heavily prepared for 11+. I would say 16 hours a week (do I hear bad parent) in a school that set 1 hour home work a week. Year 7 was easy in maths as 90% was learnt for 11+. Vocabulary hardly increases from 11+ prep to the end of secondary school! Plenty of after school activities in primary school as well (3 sports). How hard is it to do 2 hours a day on week days and 3 hours a day on weekends (unless they play console games all day long). Year 6 at school was holiday, nothing much to learn.

Maths is simply logic and you can teach methods. Eg ratio and proportion was taught using the unit method - dubbed the "idiot method" because if one follows the same method every time, one will always get the correct answer. Master the method and you get the correct answer. Again I used an online system with lessons, videos, worksheets and tests and it worked a treat.

You can train a child in to working a routine and work ethos by instilling it and following it daily. A lazy child soon learnt work had to be done and eventually did it with out complaints and continued the ethos in secondary school.
Admittedly, worked hard in year 7 and spent a lot of time doing homework, as wanted to do well. Children are only lazy if they are allowed to be lazy. They are children and can be dictated to! The are not your friends nor equal to you, they are children and need to be nurtured and shown the path to follow. Old school.

You can make a child understand by rote. Repeat and repeat and repeat and it will be retained. I have no issue in spending 3 hours on something that should be learnt in 30 minutes.

I helped prepare my nephew with the same method. My sister thought he had no chance of passing (as did tutors) and this year he passed easily. The same method... online for Maths & English and Bond for NVR.
A hard test, but it is really is one of the easiest tests to prepare for.

That's just my view. Feel free to ignore it.

[Daffodil3969]

Blackwidow what online system did you use if you don't mind my asking?

[Thegodfather]

The DC is fine. Top set in maths and doing very well. Heavily prepared for 11+. I would say 16 hours a week (do I hear bad parent) in a school that set 1 hour home work a week. Year 7 was easy in maths as 90% was learnt for 11+. Vocabulary hardly increases from 11+ prep to the end of secondary school! Plenty of after school activities in primary school as well (3 sports). How hard is it to do 2 hours a day on week days and 3 hours a day on weekends (unless they play console games all day long). Year 6 at school was holiday, nothing much to learn.

Maths is simply logic and you can teach methods. Eg ratio and proportion was taught using the unit method - dubbed the "idiot method" because if one follows the same method every time, one will always get the correct answer. Master the method and you get the correct answer. Again I used an online system with lessons, videos, worksheets and tests and it worked a treat.

You can train a child in to working a routine and work ethos by instilling it and following it daily. A lazy child soon learnt work had to be done and eventually did it with out complaints and continued the ethos in secondary school.
Admittedly, worked hard in year 7 and spent a lot of time doing homework, as wanted to do well. Children are only lazy if they are allowed to be lazy. They are children and can be dictated to! The are not your friends nor equal to you, they are children and need to be nurtured and shown the path to follow. Old school.

You can make a child understand by rote. Repeat and repeat and repeat and it will be retained. I have no issue in spending 3 hours on something that should be learnt in 30 minutes.

I helped prepare my nephew with the same method. My sister thought he had no chance of passing (as did tutors) and this year he passed easily. The same method... online for Maths & English and Bond for NVR.
A hard test, but it is really is one of the easiest tests to prepare for.

That's just my view. Feel free to ignore it.

16 HOURS A WEEK?!

My DS did 1hr 45mins/week (on the weekend) since February for the test this September. There is absolutely no way would he tolerate that much coaching! I'd much rather he had a real childhood and spent time playing and doing sports etc. There is definitely more to life than getting into X school at all costs. Its just a school after all. Also I feel that they need to develop their own work ethic and take responsibility for their own learning and be an independent learner. If they get used to constant pushing/tutoring/help from parents what happens when that is withdrawn? Say at University? I'd also worry about burn out. Two hours onto a school day for extra work + homework is more hours than adults usually spend in the office (9-3.30 at school then 3 hours at home so 9-7??). How much free time do they get on week days? How much time to play with friends and develop socially.

[Yamin151]

The DC is fine. Top set in maths and doing very well. Heavily prepared for 11+. I would say 16 hours a week (do I hear bad parent) in a school that set 1 hour home work a week. Year 7 was easy in maths as 90% was learnt for 11+. Vocabulary hardly increases from 11+ prep to the end of secondary school! Plenty of after school activities in primary school as well (3 sports). How hard is it to do 2 hours a day on week days and 3 hours a day on weekends (unless they play console games all day long). Year 6 at school was holiday, nothing much to learn.

Maths is simply logic and you can teach methods. Eg ratio and proportion was taught using the unit method - dubbed the "idiot method" because if one follows the same method every time, one will always get the correct answer. Master the method and you get the correct answer. Again I used an online system with lessons, videos, worksheets and tests and it worked a treat.

You can train a child in to working a routine and work ethos by instilling it and following it daily. A lazy child soon learnt work had to be done and eventually did it with out complaints and continued the ethos in secondary school.
Admittedly, worked hard in year 7 and spent a lot of time doing homework, as wanted to do well. Children are only lazy if they are allowed to be lazy. They are children and can be dictated to! The are not your friends nor equal to you, they are children and need to be nurtured and shown the path to follow. Old school.

You can make a child understand by rote. Repeat and repeat and repeat and it will be retained. I have no issue in spending 3 hours on something that should be learnt in 30 minutes.

I helped prepare my nephew with the same method. My sister thought he had no chance of passing (as did tutors) and this year he passed easily. The same method... online for Maths & English and Bond for NVR.
A hard test, but it is really is one of the easiest tests to prepare for.

That's just my view. Feel free to ignore it.

16 HOURS A WEEK?!

My DS did 1hr 45mins/week (on the weekend) since February for the test this September. There is absolutely no way would he tolerate that much coaching! I'd much rather he had a real childhood and spent time playing and doing sports etc. There is definitely more to life than getting into X school at all costs. Its just a school after all. Also I feel that they need to develop their own work ethic and take responsibility for their own learning and be an independent learner. If they get used to constant pushing/tutoring/help from parents what happens when that is withdrawn? Say at University? I'd also worry about burn out. Two hours onto a school day for extra work + homework is more hours than adults usually spend in the office (9-3.30 at school then 3 hours at home so 9-7??). How much free time do they get on week days? How much time to play with friends and develop socially.

Couldn't agree more. Its just not worth it.

[ToadMum]

It never occurred to us to curtail any out-of-school activities for our DC, and frankly, if we had thought that any of ours required 16 hours a week coaching for the 11+, this would have been accompanied by the thought that perhaps in that case, grammar school was not the place for them.

DS1 took the 11+ in the days before results were available pre-CAF deadline, so we only discovered that he had actually passed quite comfortably (standardised score >40 above the minimum 303 required to be considered for GS) when we got the "allocated 1st preference" email from the LA. DD didn't make the cut initially, but subsequently achieved an in-year transfer (3 places available, 25 candidates); I don't know exactly where she falls within her year group, but she is in middle sets for her two setted subjects, thinks she is near the top of her science class and says that some girls have asked her which tutor she went to ( given that our DC are almost the only ones I know who didn't have a hired tutor, I am fairly confident this is not from a perspective of, "you're struggling so much, you must have had lots of tutoring"). The only "coaching" that she got for the in-year teat was a quick look through the bits of the year 7 Science syllabus from the GS handbook that she hadn't already covered in the grammar stream at her comp. DS2 took the 11+ in September and achieved a standardised score 75 above the minimum required.

The boy I know who was made to give up everything (including his half an hour a week swimming lesson ), for a year "in order to concentrate on the 11+", failed...