My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
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southbucks3
- Posts: 3579
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Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Just a minute, my aunt's cat, and whizz - bang, are all games that hopefully exist around kitchen tables, and car journeys nationwide and have done for eons, regardless of whether the kids are subjected to the 11+
(um...why 40 secs...must be hard o find a sand timer
)
However 45 minute timed practice tests, full of vocabulary quizzes and dull empathetic, inference based multi choice comprehension questions using dull out of context extracts do not exactly invoke cries of joy, neither does 30 minutes of working out what time Jenna would get to her swimming gala, if she left 10 mins before Ralph but lived 2km further away, or whether you would be likely to draw a red marble out of a bag of 2 red, 8 yellow and 4 green ones. Them and I would far rather be polishing the family shoes, or tidying sock drawers to be honest.
Like sbarnes said...means to an end and not always a success, which I note in both this and the old whingeing "I was forced to tutor my child" newspaper article that used to pop up, was not the case, both their kids passed!
Ps. Before anyone suggests it was because I did not create a joyful tuition journey that my ds2 missed the mark, it was not the case, he just was not speedy enough for certain reasons.
(um...why 40 secs...must be hard o find a sand timer
)However 45 minute timed practice tests, full of vocabulary quizzes and dull empathetic, inference based multi choice comprehension questions using dull out of context extracts do not exactly invoke cries of joy, neither does 30 minutes of working out what time Jenna would get to her swimming gala, if she left 10 mins before Ralph but lived 2km further away, or whether you would be likely to draw a red marble out of a bag of 2 red, 8 yellow and 4 green ones. Them and I would far rather be polishing the family shoes, or tidying sock drawers to be honest.
Like sbarnes said...means to an end and not always a success, which I note in both this and the old whingeing "I was forced to tutor my child" newspaper article that used to pop up, was not the case, both their kids passed!
Ps. Before anyone suggests it was because I did not create a joyful tuition journey that my ds2 missed the mark, it was not the case, he just was not speedy enough for certain reasons.
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
I don't want this forum to turn argumentative, but in fairness I have to say that learning should not be difficult or dull. And I have not yet come across a comprehension test that is dull or out-of-context. Maybe I've been really lucky, but I've found that all of them can be brought to life through discussion, and if you have favourite texts or extracts, or see a thought provoking article, you can turn that into a comprehension - even a verbal one- with children.
I accept that, like any routine in life, there will be times when completing homework can seem a bit chore-like, but overall the process should not be miserable.
When babies are learning how to crawl and walk, they don't seem to find it a dull chore, and I believe that the innate wish to learn is somewhere inside all of us - and the desire to teach, too. Learning and teaching are, for me, the most fun activities in the world
.Maria Montessori's books offer fascinating insights into this; but sadly the education system itself, and in particular the early start we have here in the UK, can go some way to destroying a child's innate nature - which is to want to learn and progress.
I would rather be doing workbooks and tests with my children than polishing shoes and tidying sock drawers (do people tidy sock drawers?
)
Is it all just for the 11 Plus sbarnes - does extra learning not have further reaching affects than one exam mark?
Ds2 was recently completing an RS essay and remembered (by heart) some war poetry that he'd studied for his 11 Plus in Year 5.
I accept that, like any routine in life, there will be times when completing homework can seem a bit chore-like, but overall the process should not be miserable.
When babies are learning how to crawl and walk, they don't seem to find it a dull chore, and I believe that the innate wish to learn is somewhere inside all of us - and the desire to teach, too. Learning and teaching are, for me, the most fun activities in the world
.Maria Montessori's books offer fascinating insights into this; but sadly the education system itself, and in particular the early start we have here in the UK, can go some way to destroying a child's innate nature - which is to want to learn and progress. I would rather be doing workbooks and tests with my children than polishing shoes and tidying sock drawers (do people tidy sock drawers?
)Is it all just for the 11 Plus sbarnes - does extra learning not have further reaching affects than one exam mark?
Ds2 was recently completing an RS essay and remembered (by heart) some war poetry that he'd studied for his 11 Plus in Year 5.
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southbucks3
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- Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 am
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Ok um
Each to their own, but there is a certain thrill to be achieved from finding the sock that has been missing for three months, One that my sons have never been heard to express through reading three paragraphs of Jane Eyre and working out that she feels miserable, lonely, bullied and terrified and then sticking the appropriate dash in the right multi choice box. Discussing a thought provoking article and doing a verbal comprehension, is reading the dailies together, not doing practice papers, again something you do regardless of there being a specific test looming.
We all enjoy different things, and learning is a massively broad area, if you and your kids enjoy practice papers, that's fine, we don't, that's fine too because life is not all fun. We do them together and get through them together, sometimes scream together, then we may spend an hour digging the allotment, or practising goal kicks repetitively, or running up and down hills, which is someone else's idea of torture!
I have two out of three kids who love reading, really love it, one despite struggling to read, they all three take an active interest in what ever they are reading, and will happily write book reviews. One loves poems and number crunching, one sucks up science and nature,one writes amazingly and very creatively. They are all different, but they all moan or moaned about 11+ practice, and homework btw, but that's a different story! Sorry but I refuse to believe they are in the minority.
Each to their own, but there is a certain thrill to be achieved from finding the sock that has been missing for three months,
One that my sons have never been heard to express through reading three paragraphs of Jane Eyre and working out that she feels miserable, lonely, bullied and terrified and then sticking the appropriate dash in the right multi choice box. Discussing a thought provoking article and doing a verbal comprehension, is reading the dailies together, not doing practice papers, again something you do regardless of there being a specific test looming.We all enjoy different things, and learning is a massively broad area, if you and your kids enjoy practice papers, that's fine, we don't, that's fine too because life is not all fun. We do them together and get through them together, sometimes scream together, then we may spend an hour digging the allotment, or practising goal kicks repetitively, or running up and down hills, which is someone else's idea of torture!
I have two out of three kids who love reading, really love it, one despite struggling to read, they all three take an active interest in what ever they are reading, and will happily write book reviews. One loves poems and number crunching, one sucks up science and nature,one writes amazingly and very creatively. They are all different, but they all moan or moaned about 11+ practice, and homework btw, but that's a different story! Sorry but I refuse to believe they are in the minority.
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
KenR joked about making this a lottery - and the reality is that is equally unfair - that would select children regardless of whether they deserved to go to a grammar school or would benefit from that style of education.
One of the things us Mums have been kicking around the the playground before school is whether it would have been less stressful if children could have been tested in their own schools - rather than at a KE school. So just go along to their primary on that Saturday and be tested in the Hall or a classroom (in familiar surroundings)?
We all know the history - once everyone sat the test and many felt failures so that's why it doesn't happen like this now - and we can understand it's easier logistically to do it like this - but the test day was intimidating & hectic. Certainly little fish got very confused because we kept getting directed the wrong way - which made us a bit anxious. We worked it out in the end, people were incredibly helpful (even walking us to the right bit) and it was all fine (by the way English is our first language)- but it did stress little fish and I can't help but wonder did that cost 10 points?
---------------
My little fish scored 213 (I'm guessing ~225 ish needed this year as more places are available) and most likely won't make the cutoff for the birmingham KE Consortium grammar schools within a reasonable bus ride from us. We're disappointed of course - but we hedged our bets by ensuring that when we moved home we were moving into a good catchment for senior school so that the alternative should little fish not pass the 11+ was equally palatable.
As other parents going through this 11+ thing this year (2013 exam for 2014 entry) have said to me recently - at least you know that no matter what your child is going to a good school. Those who couldn't afford to move (or didn't want to) are facing a long wait until March to learn whether 213 - 224 (that's the range for my friends' DCs) is sufficient. They pray it is because they face sending their child to a local senior school just placed into special measures.
And that - all respect to the author of the BBC article - is in fact the real **** facing parents of 10/11 year olds. Too many senior school options are pretty mediocre at best. That's why grammars are popular.
The reality is we all want the best for all children - but very few of us can guarantee that for them. And that can be heartbreaking at times.
---------------------------------
Now in terms of was home tutoring for this 11+ ****:
No. I actually enjoyed it and despite herself little fish enjoyed it at times.
What was our goal. Well I saw no point dictating pass the 11+ or come back on your shield like some Spartan Mother.
I decided our goal was to get little fish to where I notionally thought a bright child should be by the end of primary school ( I hasten to add with not any help/ support/ encouragement from school - indeed I was lectured by one teacher about 'pushing my children too hard').
We didn't study/ practice every day. We never did more than 2 hours in a go at the weekend or summer - and tended to go for 30 minutes here and there method. It was primary a lot of reading (little fish's biggest weakness) and making sure her maths skills were solid. We gave up on practice tests/ assessment papers and stuck to short & sweet forms of revision: 10 minute bond papers/ on-line quizzes. Because little fish found longer things hard - possibly a clue to why she struggled on the exam.
And I enjoyed this one an one time with my little fish.
She's already showing signs of the independent teenager she's growing into and I know that spending hours with Mum is definitely going to be a rare thing reserved for high days/ holidays in a few years.
So for me the '****' was the stress and my worry that my little fish would be very upset by either the exam itself or her result. She was fine with the exam but disappointed by the result. There were tears - but a few weeks on she's not that bothered and focused on aiming for level 6 on her SATs. Now that may be a bit about saving face/ pride and may be to please her OldTrout of a Mum but it's lovely to see her moving on.
And that's the point. It's a stage - and hopefully we all can enter into it and pass through it with good humour and grace. I'm genuinely happy for little fish's friends who have passed. They've worked hard too and deserve it. Sincerely. I'm also gutted for those who haven't and hoping it all works out for the best for them and my little fish.
The hardest thing about this is that there are only so many places. The nice thing in birmingham this year is that for many families the addition of places at several schools means that they'll make it when otherwise they wouldn't. And that is wonderful for all of them!
One of the things us Mums have been kicking around the the playground before school is whether it would have been less stressful if children could have been tested in their own schools - rather than at a KE school. So just go along to their primary on that Saturday and be tested in the Hall or a classroom (in familiar surroundings)?
We all know the history - once everyone sat the test and many felt failures so that's why it doesn't happen like this now - and we can understand it's easier logistically to do it like this - but the test day was intimidating & hectic. Certainly little fish got very confused because we kept getting directed the wrong way - which made us a bit anxious. We worked it out in the end, people were incredibly helpful (even walking us to the right bit) and it was all fine (by the way English is our first language)- but it did stress little fish and I can't help but wonder did that cost 10 points?
---------------
My little fish scored 213 (I'm guessing ~225 ish needed this year as more places are available) and most likely won't make the cutoff for the birmingham KE Consortium grammar schools within a reasonable bus ride from us. We're disappointed of course - but we hedged our bets by ensuring that when we moved home we were moving into a good catchment for senior school so that the alternative should little fish not pass the 11+ was equally palatable.
As other parents going through this 11+ thing this year (2013 exam for 2014 entry) have said to me recently - at least you know that no matter what your child is going to a good school. Those who couldn't afford to move (or didn't want to) are facing a long wait until March to learn whether 213 - 224 (that's the range for my friends' DCs) is sufficient. They pray it is because they face sending their child to a local senior school just placed into special measures.
And that - all respect to the author of the BBC article - is in fact the real **** facing parents of 10/11 year olds. Too many senior school options are pretty mediocre at best. That's why grammars are popular.
The reality is we all want the best for all children - but very few of us can guarantee that for them. And that can be heartbreaking at times.
---------------------------------
Now in terms of was home tutoring for this 11+ ****:
No. I actually enjoyed it and despite herself little fish enjoyed it at times.
What was our goal. Well I saw no point dictating pass the 11+ or come back on your shield like some Spartan Mother.
I decided our goal was to get little fish to where I notionally thought a bright child should be by the end of primary school ( I hasten to add with not any help/ support/ encouragement from school - indeed I was lectured by one teacher about 'pushing my children too hard').
We didn't study/ practice every day. We never did more than 2 hours in a go at the weekend or summer - and tended to go for 30 minutes here and there method. It was primary a lot of reading (little fish's biggest weakness) and making sure her maths skills were solid. We gave up on practice tests/ assessment papers and stuck to short & sweet forms of revision: 10 minute bond papers/ on-line quizzes. Because little fish found longer things hard - possibly a clue to why she struggled on the exam.
And I enjoyed this one an one time with my little fish.
She's already showing signs of the independent teenager she's growing into and I know that spending hours with Mum is definitely going to be a rare thing reserved for high days/ holidays in a few years.
So for me the '****' was the stress and my worry that my little fish would be very upset by either the exam itself or her result. She was fine with the exam but disappointed by the result. There were tears - but a few weeks on she's not that bothered and focused on aiming for level 6 on her SATs. Now that may be a bit about saving face/ pride and may be to please her OldTrout of a Mum but it's lovely to see her moving on.
And that's the point. It's a stage - and hopefully we all can enter into it and pass through it with good humour and grace. I'm genuinely happy for little fish's friends who have passed. They've worked hard too and deserve it. Sincerely. I'm also gutted for those who haven't and hoping it all works out for the best for them and my little fish.
The hardest thing about this is that there are only so many places. The nice thing in birmingham this year is that for many families the addition of places at several schools means that they'll make it when otherwise they wouldn't. And that is wonderful for all of them!
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
OldTrout I thoroughly enjoyed your genuine heartfelt post 
I have to admit that I enjoyed the 11 plus work with DS2 too. He had many tantrums, even broke a few pencils in half ( ), but overall I will always cherish that time. However, a part of me is really really glad I don't have to go through it again!
OldTrout, it's so lovely to hear that there are some who are genuinely happy for others. I am feeling rather hurt that even the mums who I got on with really well suddenly feel the need to avoid me
..
I have to admit that I enjoyed the 11 plus work with DS2 too. He had many tantrums, even broke a few pencils in half (
), but overall I will always cherish that time. However, a part of me is really really glad I don't have to go through it again! OldTrout, it's so lovely to hear that there are some who are genuinely happy for others. I am feeling rather hurt that even the mums who I got on with really well suddenly feel the need to avoid me
..Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Is this relative, i.e. looking at the DC whose parents have named a school on their CAF - what if you don't have "a good mix of abilities" wanting a place at a given school? Or is it based on the results of all DC in the Borough and just allocate places where the relevant band has vacancies, regardless of which schools they requested? Sorry to be a bit dense here, but what happens if you can't be placed in the right band in a school you can sensibly get to?atom8 wrote: Get rid of grammar schools altogether. I understand that most London boroughs assess children prior to secondary school entry and place a fixed proportion of each ability in each school. i.e. 20% top performing kids, 20% mid performing kids, 20% bottom performing kids etc. You therefore get a good mix of abilities in every school.
The equal preference system I have no trouble in understanding, but "fair banding" I have never been fully able to get to grips with
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Just for the record too, I loved the entire 11+ process with my child. DC remembers the stressful moments with affection now, we laugh and joke about them. Would I do it again....now that's a question
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leanmeamum
- Posts: 736
- Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:14 pm
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Our journey was stressful at times, especially at the start. The most difficult part was getting used to the discipline of working but sorted itself out once he knew why it was important to work.
The upside is that he knows that passing exams is not easy and how much effort is required. He knows what to expect, in terms of effort, for his future exams.
The upside is that he knows that passing exams is not easy and how much effort is required. He knows what to expect, in terms of effort, for his future exams.
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Personally, I really did not like the whole process. It all feels/felt very elitist & it was obvious from the off that the parents of other children being tutored were much better off than we are! It also felt to me (only my opinion) that a few of these parents were doing it purely for their own desire & the thoughts of their child came second. I witnessed children crying & really upset by the whole tutoring/exam experience. It was at times really uncomfortable viewing. Our dd went once a week as at £15 a session it was really stretching our budget, but other children were going much more frequently than that. Also, we did not do any tutoring with her on top at home as we felt once a week on top of school was quite enough & we never ever wanted to spoil her learning experience. Luckily, she is extraordinarily self motivated and often took herself off to the computer to do online tests that she sourced herself.
The only reason we have gone through this whole process is because we have a naturally bright daughter whose academic needs simply would not be met at our local secondaries - all 3 of which are very low performing. We sent our older daughter to the best of the 3, so my fact finding is experience & not purely down to league tables, location, gossip etc. our older daughter was also a level 6 performer in stats, so very bright & the school did not cater for her needs at all. She has left now & got some gcses but we know at a better school she would have gotten better results. So, as awful as it sounds we learnt by that mistake and wanted to give our second daughter the best possible opportunity.
That said, we would never ever put our own desires before our child's & if she was unhappy at any point it would have stopped.
I'm probably going to get lynched on here for saying this - but I just feel that it is a lifestyle choice for many. Big house, big car, designer clothes,children at grammar school etc. I just really hope our daughter carries on having fun whilst being studious as pushy parent I am most definitely not!!!
The only reason we have gone through this whole process is because we have a naturally bright daughter whose academic needs simply would not be met at our local secondaries - all 3 of which are very low performing. We sent our older daughter to the best of the 3, so my fact finding is experience & not purely down to league tables, location, gossip etc. our older daughter was also a level 6 performer in stats, so very bright & the school did not cater for her needs at all. She has left now & got some gcses but we know at a better school she would have gotten better results. So, as awful as it sounds we learnt by that mistake and wanted to give our second daughter the best possible opportunity.
That said, we would never ever put our own desires before our child's & if she was unhappy at any point it would have stopped.
I'm probably going to get lynched on here for saying this - but I just feel that it is a lifestyle choice for many. Big house, big car, designer clothes,children at grammar school etc. I just really hope our daughter carries on having fun whilst being studious as pushy parent I am most definitely not!!!
Re: My 11-plus **** article by the BBC
Just need the big car for a full set! Well at least one that isn't a Peugeot expert tepeegoodmanj wrote: I'm probably going to get lynched on here for saying this - but I just feel that it is a lifestyle choice for many. Big house, big car, designer clothes,children at grammar school etc. I just really hope our daughter carries on having fun whilst being studious as pushy parent I am most definitely not!!!
In all seriousness, it is a lifestyle choice for some but my guess is most of those types elect to go private rather than mix with the great unwashed, albeit bright unwashed, at grammar. most parents I meet, and ds1 friends I have met, appear very down to earth and are motivated by the same as we are, what is best for our children. I assume KEFW is no different to the other non- fee paying grammars in this regard.
Our boys were privately tutored which was a decision based on many considerations, one being the hellish nature of trying to get them to do homework so we decided to pay someone to manage tutoring for us. There was nothing enjoyable about it and I am glad it is over. It was a means to an end, nothing more.
Did it work? Ds1 got into his first choice of KEFW, so a resounding Yes. Ds2 is likely to be offered a place at Adams, his and dw first choice for him, but is unlikely to have met the score to be offered a place at a KE grammar. So probably Yes.
It is not within my nature to be pushy but I WILL do what I need to in the interests of my boys. Maybe a contradiction but I don't see ensuring one's children have equal opportunities as being "pushy".
