Offer day looms...
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Re: Offer day looms...
Well said Umsusu, I totally agree with you on all of your points. I think I was prepared for the long process and was under no illusion that we would be told during the interview if he had secured a place or not. Like you said, it's unlikely that people offer at an interview before interviewing the other candidates. It was quite clear what the next steps were and how long we'd have to wait.
Don't understand why somebody in the earlier post wasn't given information about their financial situation - in my finance meeting, I was told exactly how much of an AP my DS would achieve if he was successful.
Don't understand why somebody in the earlier post wasn't given information about their financial situation - in my finance meeting, I was told exactly how much of an AP my DS would achieve if he was successful.
Re: Offer day looms...
I also agree with UmSusu. I don't think there's any "smoke and mirrors" about the KES process at all. Why wouldn't KES be fair and equitable about their selection decisions. They are simply trying to identify kids who show the most potential and interviews are part of that process. For borderline candidates an interview will help differentiate between kids who score very similarly. For AP and scholarship candidates, meeting the boys and parents will help distribute what is a limited pot of money in the best way.
KES are probably more transparent than most. There is a very clear income and fee contribution table available to all AP candidates and everyone will be informed whether they are being offered a place or not by the 14th February.
During the open day Mr Claughton (Chief Master) made it clear that the school isn't just looking for candidates that can perform well at an 11plus type exam. The KES papers are marked by humans (not computers) to enable the invigilators to spot possible strengths that might otherwise be missed. Candidates ability in the performing arts and sport are also taken into account. All things missed by the grammar schools. We applied for a music scholarship on behalf of our son and although unsuccessful, have been told that his music ability should still count in his favour.
So.......we await the 14th. For us it will be an offer of a full fee paying place or nothing at all.
KES are probably more transparent than most. There is a very clear income and fee contribution table available to all AP candidates and everyone will be informed whether they are being offered a place or not by the 14th February.
During the open day Mr Claughton (Chief Master) made it clear that the school isn't just looking for candidates that can perform well at an 11plus type exam. The KES papers are marked by humans (not computers) to enable the invigilators to spot possible strengths that might otherwise be missed. Candidates ability in the performing arts and sport are also taken into account. All things missed by the grammar schools. We applied for a music scholarship on behalf of our son and although unsuccessful, have been told that his music ability should still count in his favour.
So.......we await the 14th. For us it will be an offer of a full fee paying place or nothing at all.
Re: Offer day looms...
Yes well said UmSusu!
We made the decision not to enter my ds in the KES exam based on his performance in the grammars. His older brother goes to KES with an AP, and a full fee place just wasn't an option for him. He should have secured a grammar place, wasn't actually keen to sit the KES exam and I suppose I was worried he wouldn't achieve what his brother did. He is a very sensitive boy, and I didn't want to push him into something which may cause unnecessary stress or upset. My elder ds sat the KES test when the grammar results weren't known until March, so the situation was very different. We are all happy that our ds will be going to an excellent grammar school, but can't wait to get this in writing!
Having been through it, I agree that the KES ap process is as open as it can be. They are very good at selecting the right boys to thrive in the school, they are investing large sums of money so it is important that they get it right! The fact that the scheme is so successful for both the boys and the school has led to its expansion and I think that this should be applauded.
You only have to look at the bursary admissions info on other local indie school websites to see there is nothing in comparison if you choose to go down this route.
We made the decision not to enter my ds in the KES exam based on his performance in the grammars. His older brother goes to KES with an AP, and a full fee place just wasn't an option for him. He should have secured a grammar place, wasn't actually keen to sit the KES exam and I suppose I was worried he wouldn't achieve what his brother did. He is a very sensitive boy, and I didn't want to push him into something which may cause unnecessary stress or upset. My elder ds sat the KES test when the grammar results weren't known until March, so the situation was very different. We are all happy that our ds will be going to an excellent grammar school, but can't wait to get this in writing!
Having been through it, I agree that the KES ap process is as open as it can be. They are very good at selecting the right boys to thrive in the school, they are investing large sums of money so it is important that they get it right! The fact that the scheme is so successful for both the boys and the school has led to its expansion and I think that this should be applauded.
You only have to look at the bursary admissions info on other local indie school websites to see there is nothing in comparison if you choose to go down this route.
Re: Offer day looms...
Excellent post UmSusu!!! Although I have not applied to KES, I think KEHS have a similar system and I think they could not give much clearer information. My daughter forced me, under duress, to attend the recent Open Day at KEHS and the staff could not have been more helpful and informative. I had not wanted my daughter to sit the exam, and asked many questions, but after hearing what the staff said I felt I had no choice but to let her sit the exam.
I was concerned that my daughter had received no tuition since last September, attended a state primary school (whereas many girls are privately educated) and we would need an assisted place. I was told that although, obviously, the exam score was important, they were looking for a child with natural ability, creativity, imagination, supportive parents and most of all potential. They liked the fact that my daughter plays a musical instrument, is in an orchestra and does various other out of school activities. They were really positive and enthusiastic and encouraged me to let my daughter sit the exam. The registrar said, which I thought was very nice, 'Your daughter has nothing to lose by sitting the exam but everything to gain.'
Although it is highly unlikely that my daughter will go to KEHS, I just wanted to say that I think KES and KEHS are quite clear and transparent when it comes to how they select their students.
I was concerned that my daughter had received no tuition since last September, attended a state primary school (whereas many girls are privately educated) and we would need an assisted place. I was told that although, obviously, the exam score was important, they were looking for a child with natural ability, creativity, imagination, supportive parents and most of all potential. They liked the fact that my daughter plays a musical instrument, is in an orchestra and does various other out of school activities. They were really positive and enthusiastic and encouraged me to let my daughter sit the exam. The registrar said, which I thought was very nice, 'Your daughter has nothing to lose by sitting the exam but everything to gain.'
Although it is highly unlikely that my daughter will go to KEHS, I just wanted to say that I think KES and KEHS are quite clear and transparent when it comes to how they select their students.
Re: Offer day looms...
Bubbles, my DS also attends a state primary school and we are after an AP too. Fingers crossed for our DC.
Re: Offer day looms...
Both KES and KEHS do reallocate the money when an AP offer is turned down. There are a fair number of examples on this forum of people who applied for an AP, were offered a full fee place and subsequently offered an AP when the money became available from rejected AP offers.moseleymum wrote:We arent eligible for an AP. However as I understand it, when an offer is made and rejected then the money is not reallocated. I know that is the case for scholarships.
If you applied for an AP and KES/KEHS would be your first choice if you got it, but are offered a full fee place, I strongly recommend you to talk to the school before rejecting the place to try to find out whereabouts in the queue you will be when they reallocate the AP money. But do bear in mind that you will have to pay the first term's fees if you accept the place then give it up after Easter. And if you are also holding an offer of a GS place you should aim to make your decision before appeals are heard so the GS place can be offered to someone on the waiting list.
Mike
Re: Offer day looms...
Just wanted to add to UmSusu's post that frankly it isn't just the indie's (KES/ KEGS/ EH) where navigating the system is tricky. I think the entire process - deciding which comprehensives to put down. Do you go for the 11+ or not - are you pressuring your kids too much? Going to your primary and asking their advice to be told they can't advise on this? If they get into grammar school X will they cope with a 1 hour + journey?
Perhaps because neither DH nor I are from Birmingham that's the problem, but... I can assure you that the entire system is madly stressful and probably unnecessarily so.
Why not have a system where it's clear if your child goes to primary X they'll feed into Senior School Y. House prices are skewed anyway by where good schools (especially) senior school options are.
Why not have a system where if a school is facing special measures parents are warned of it prior to making selections (OFSTED withheld publication of special measure verdict given out early October until November - after parents had to make their selections. Some local parents knew, but many of us didn't.).
why not have a system where able children (maybe those on track for NC L5 at KS2 SATs) are automatically enrolled for 11+ and parents are told. Those not automatically enrolled can also decide to go for the 11+ but then are clear that the school feels they'll have to do quite a bit of work to attain that standard of performance. I certainly know of two families (both foreigners) who were so uncertain about their child's ability and one misunderstood and thought grammars were private - that they both opted not to go for the 11+ (Also left wondering if rather racist all white school staff/ governors didn't really feel any ethical need to help out the foreigner. She asked for advice from the school and they suggested she talk to other parents - she was too embarrassed to do so and quite rightly felt how will other parents know how my child is as a student.).
Why not have a system where results from grammar exams are given prior to making school selections and the City Council (YES THAT'S YOU BIRMINGHAM) doesn't ask your school to tell you they want your selections by end Sept.
why have a system where your provisional choices on the computer are sent to you as your final results?
So no I don't blame the independent (private) senior schools - but I think the system here is totally mad. It's not clear what exactly you need to do. It's not clear whether your child is appropriately able or not. You're left to guess. Gamble that DIY tutoring is a reasonable choice/ or opt to scrimp and save to pay tutor fees - and worry that this is too stressful for your kid & you (to be honest). Certainly one friend went all Tiger Mum and she's absolutely ashamed of herself, even though her DC did incredibly well, it's left their mother/ daughter relationship in absolutely tatters.
My little fish didn't quite do enough (213 was her score) - so it's the local comp for us. But even then we have our preferences and are left to guess whether we were in the catchment or not.
And so we wait, fingers crossed we live near enough to the better option and hope.
As I said - it's a mad system, which clearly has as its lowest priority ensuring that a quality education is available to all pupils.
Thus websites like this help those new to the system (English or not) try and work out what to do for best, how to approach this and how to keep sane.
The working hard for the 11+ standard I get. And I support - that's worth it. I wanted my child to be a strong student leaving primary - and preparing for the 11+ has helped with that. But then we're highly educated parents who probably overly value a highly academic/ University prep education.
But I can assure you there are tons of parents worrying, waiting for results day, hoping they can avoid the 'sink school' and get their first choice or that the entry score just drops that little bit more (221 for one friend's daughter - I think I'm as wound up that her DD makes it as she is - because this child is G&T for sport, already on a national juniors team, and would be left to fall behind at an ordinary comprehensive but is likely to be supported at a Grammar).
Fingers crossed everybody
I hope for most of you - you're through with this - all kids safely off to senior school and can relax and laugh about this crazy phase in your life as a parent. I'm taking a little rest and then starting again with my small fry (Y4). Hopefully older and wiser, we'll do a bit better next time around. (I did think to keep back all books/ mock tests).
Perhaps because neither DH nor I are from Birmingham that's the problem, but... I can assure you that the entire system is madly stressful and probably unnecessarily so.
Why not have a system where it's clear if your child goes to primary X they'll feed into Senior School Y. House prices are skewed anyway by where good schools (especially) senior school options are.
Why not have a system where if a school is facing special measures parents are warned of it prior to making selections (OFSTED withheld publication of special measure verdict given out early October until November - after parents had to make their selections. Some local parents knew, but many of us didn't.).
why not have a system where able children (maybe those on track for NC L5 at KS2 SATs) are automatically enrolled for 11+ and parents are told. Those not automatically enrolled can also decide to go for the 11+ but then are clear that the school feels they'll have to do quite a bit of work to attain that standard of performance. I certainly know of two families (both foreigners) who were so uncertain about their child's ability and one misunderstood and thought grammars were private - that they both opted not to go for the 11+ (Also left wondering if rather racist all white school staff/ governors didn't really feel any ethical need to help out the foreigner. She asked for advice from the school and they suggested she talk to other parents - she was too embarrassed to do so and quite rightly felt how will other parents know how my child is as a student.).
Why not have a system where results from grammar exams are given prior to making school selections and the City Council (YES THAT'S YOU BIRMINGHAM) doesn't ask your school to tell you they want your selections by end Sept.
why have a system where your provisional choices on the computer are sent to you as your final results?
So no I don't blame the independent (private) senior schools - but I think the system here is totally mad. It's not clear what exactly you need to do. It's not clear whether your child is appropriately able or not. You're left to guess. Gamble that DIY tutoring is a reasonable choice/ or opt to scrimp and save to pay tutor fees - and worry that this is too stressful for your kid & you (to be honest). Certainly one friend went all Tiger Mum and she's absolutely ashamed of herself, even though her DC did incredibly well, it's left their mother/ daughter relationship in absolutely tatters.
My little fish didn't quite do enough (213 was her score) - so it's the local comp for us. But even then we have our preferences and are left to guess whether we were in the catchment or not.
And so we wait, fingers crossed we live near enough to the better option and hope.
As I said - it's a mad system, which clearly has as its lowest priority ensuring that a quality education is available to all pupils.
Thus websites like this help those new to the system (English or not) try and work out what to do for best, how to approach this and how to keep sane.
The working hard for the 11+ standard I get. And I support - that's worth it. I wanted my child to be a strong student leaving primary - and preparing for the 11+ has helped with that. But then we're highly educated parents who probably overly value a highly academic/ University prep education.
But I can assure you there are tons of parents worrying, waiting for results day, hoping they can avoid the 'sink school' and get their first choice or that the entry score just drops that little bit more (221 for one friend's daughter - I think I'm as wound up that her DD makes it as she is - because this child is G&T for sport, already on a national juniors team, and would be left to fall behind at an ordinary comprehensive but is likely to be supported at a Grammar).
Fingers crossed everybody
I hope for most of you - you're through with this - all kids safely off to senior school and can relax and laugh about this crazy phase in your life as a parent. I'm taking a little rest and then starting again with my small fry (Y4). Hopefully older and wiser, we'll do a bit better next time around. (I did think to keep back all books/ mock tests).
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moseleymum
- Posts: 659
- Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:59 pm
Re: Offer day looms...
As stated I've not been through the AP process, however if they do indeed reallocate money then they're even more committed to those in need of financial support than I thought!mike1880 wrote: Both KES and KEHS do reallocate the money when an AP offer is turned down.
Glad also that at least others appreciate there is some transparency there. Our first 11+ experience was of the Consortium exam with no idea of content or score achieved and no feedback.
It would be sad to think that some people might be put off from applying to Indie schools because of a few experiences, when many children have benefitted. The 11+ process is stressful and affects families differently, hence the appeal of this forum to share different viewpoints.
Re: Offer day looms...
Old Trout - completely agree! I'm living in Worcestershire now and its no different here as we're going through the Warks process (which is pretty much the same).
When DS said that he wanted to do the 11+, I'm ashamed to say that I had absolutely no idea what to do / where to go / who to talk to about it.
I don't come from an academic family and neither does DH so we didn't have that experience to fall back on. If I hadn't stumbled across this forum (and it really was a stumble), then I'm not sure where we'd be.
I think that schools should be able to give some guidance to parents about it - whether they support the 11+ system or not. When I asked whether DS should consider it, I couldn't get a straight answer. I wasn't looking for them to tell me that he would pass, just that he showed sufficient academic promise / ability / whatever.
The whole thing wasn't helped by me not wanting to raise the subject with other parents and sounding push / smug etc, and the parents that I did manage to speak to about it were very tight lipped on the subject.
Sorry - ramble over!
When DS said that he wanted to do the 11+, I'm ashamed to say that I had absolutely no idea what to do / where to go / who to talk to about it.
I don't come from an academic family and neither does DH so we didn't have that experience to fall back on. If I hadn't stumbled across this forum (and it really was a stumble), then I'm not sure where we'd be.
I think that schools should be able to give some guidance to parents about it - whether they support the 11+ system or not. When I asked whether DS should consider it, I couldn't get a straight answer. I wasn't looking for them to tell me that he would pass, just that he showed sufficient academic promise / ability / whatever.
The whole thing wasn't helped by me not wanting to raise the subject with other parents and sounding push / smug etc, and the parents that I did manage to speak to about it were very tight lipped on the subject.
Sorry - ramble over!
Re: Offer day looms...
Ok I'm going to step in and agree with Happy Dad. The KES system isn't clear. They are not necessarily looking for 'potential'. DS1 is extremely bright, but he fell seriously ill when he was 8, and missed nearly a year of schooling in total. Yet KES showed absolutely no sympathy, and just confirmed that 'he's obviously a bright boy as his VR score was very high'. So, what happened to the 'potential' everyone is going on about? Mrs Phillips even went on to say his English mark couldn't really have been affected by his illness ( he was still on treatment when he sat the exam).
Maybe it's a case of sour grapes for me, but I don't rate KES. I refused to let DS2 even sit their exam. That's a good £50 or whatever saved!
Maybe it's a case of sour grapes for me, but I don't rate KES. I refused to let DS2 even sit their exam. That's a good £50 or whatever saved!