Pupil premium

[equation]

So are Nervousmum and Equation saying that if you are PP you shouldn't tutor your children?
Is this just private tutoring or home tutoring as well?
How would you police this??!!
To be a genuine PP you need to have a low income and also show no interest in your childs education?!! If this was the case the PP children wouldn't even apply in the first place!!


Edited to add I am sure people do cheat the system, and maybe income support is a better indication than FSM.

By all means home tutor your own dcs - GENUINE dps on income support struggle to put food on the table let alone afford private tuition.
The GS outreach programmes are targeting these genuine pp dcs so their dps CAN now apply to sit the test.

[nervousmom]

I am not saying they shouldn't tutor their children themselves, if they are willing and able then good luck to them.

What we are saying is, if these people are claiming PP, they are supposedly families on lower incomes and therefore can't afford proffessional tutors, but if these people cheat the system that is not fair

Plus they could be taking the place of a genuine PP child

[Petitpois]

I would say significant numbers of PP children applying this year will have been on free schools meals a few years back when unemployment was beginning to peak.

Some of those same parents will have got themselves back on their feet and will have been able to afford tuition this year, as well as still being eligible for PP under the 6 year rule.

I wonder whether the case is being made here to restrict the PP to say the last 3 years??

[equation]

I would say significant numbers of PP children applying this year will have been on free schools meals a few years back when unemployment was beginning to peak.

Some of those same parents will have got themselves back on their feet and will have been able to afford tuition this year, as well as still being eligible for PP under the 6 year rule.

I wonder whether the case is being made here to restrict the PP to say the last 3 years??

You could technically get fsm for 1 day & become classified as pp [comment removed by Moderator]! The system needs an overhaul now!

[succeed]

The PP situation is very complex and yes, wide open to exploitation to those 'in the know'. E.g I have seen families claiming wftc whilst running multiple businesses and driving luxury cars. ( This was prior to the introduction of the PP scheme, but i imagine these type of families will be able to exploit the system further to their advantage.)

On the other hand, any attempts to over haul it would suffer the same short comings and possibly penalise the genuine kids/parents even more. Government policy over the last few years has been to move most children off FSM by requiring the parent (s) to work once the youngest child reaches school age. These extra earnings will almost certainly disqualify them from FSM, but will not significantly raise their living standards, leaving them still 'under privileged' and in poverty in many (most?) cases.

What to do....??.

[Petitpois]

I agree with a lot of that. The working poor probably get the worse deal of all. If your a family with one income - say £19,000 (or whatever the lower limit is) you won't be getting that much support from the state, and no free school meals.

People who go out to work at the margins get really bad outcomes, in terms of loss of support for a range things, opticians, prescriptions, Housing benefit, Pupil premium.

I don't think it is fair to penalise the really wealthy as they have worked hard for what they have got in a lot of cases, but yep the majority get no help at all.

[MSD]

All this is going to do is gradually increase the PP scores, so that eventually there will hardly be any difference between pp and non pp
.

100% agreed NM! I will give it a maximum of 4 to 5 years before the last cut-off for PP and non-PP places are pretty much the same. I also predict a rise in PP cut-offs this year. And if these predictions do turn out to be correct then we can safely conclude that the PP scheme has been a failure, and it hasn't really helped the genuine PP children.

This has been discussed before but reducing the cut-off isn't the right way to level the playing field. We need to find better ways to achieve this.

[succeed]

Nervousmum has made a good suggestion on plugging one of the loopholes - giving the FO access to the NI number to check current earnings. Unfortunately, many more loopholes still exist though. ..
Whilst I agree , the wealthy usually work hard for what they have, many of the working poor do too, contrary to popular belief. However, often they are unable to 'play the same game' as some of their wealthier counterparts as they are rigidly taxed via PAYE etc.
Perhaps a quota of pupils per school could be introduced, where teachers decide which of their PP kids should be encouraged and further supported to sit the test These judgements could be made by observing pupils in yr 4 and 5 for quick thinking skills etc. Say, a maximum of 5 candidates per school could be entered.? Not perfect i know , but at least it would encourage a fair representative spread of pupils across all areas?