Is CEM testing fair?

[Pinecone]

I forgot that in some areas there are both comprehensives and grammar schools. In my local authority area it's either secondary or grammar school, not comprehensive. Children from surrounding areas with comprehensive systems can now obtain places at our local grammar schools but there's been no extra allocation of senior school places locally to compensate. You could say that our local children can now go to those comprehensive schools but personally I would prefer my children didn't have too far to travel and had friends near by.

[MSD]

I am convinced that if we had just relied on daily reading to score enough in KE vocab, we would have failed miserably. It was the cramming of word lists that helped us. But will these words help my boys in any way, shape or form in their future educational journey - I don't think so! They will forget all these words in few months, as it's not the living vocabulary they would have acquired through quality reading.

crossed with pinecone

[MSD]

PP - Sent you PM to explain weighting

[Yamin151]

I find myself wondering whether lack of reading due to over reliance on screens as a free time hobby (rather than risk the wrath of the child) is leading to an overreaction against CEM and its opinion that children with good vocab show an aptitude for grammar school.
Apart from the fact that as I undstanding it, the pre CEM test was biased towards maths, any weighting, if indeed there is one, towards vocab is not so marked that an across the board intelligent child will be cheated of a place due to more weight than previously on verbal?

And for someone to say, as they did a few comments back, that parents who get a tutor are 'buying' their place at a GS, that is insulting and bitter in the extreme. Whatever the advantages and disadvantages of the test, they seem to be supplying GS with a steady stream of pupils that cope with the work and yield good results, so it can't be that misplaced.

[gowest]

This year the examination results were stunning and 18 pupils have Oxbridge places. It's worth trusting the professionals to make the right decisions for the children they are responsible for I think.

It is a very good result, indeed. But our local grammar school for girls has 16 for Oxbridge this year and no IB (as far as I know).
I even know of a school and a year when about 30 lads went to Oxbridge from our local grammar (ok, it was a "vintage" year ) and it was in those days when kids were entering grammar schools by their raw ability (lucky them) and without the changes done by current professionals to the 11+

[Turtlegirl]

Interested that your think that bright and curious children don't read a lot Tolstoy. Why is that? Girls at KEVIHS are meant to have a reading book with them at all times and most do.

[MSD]

And for someone to say, as they did a few comments back, that parents who get a tutor are 'buying' their place at a GS, that is insulting and bitter in the extreme. Whatever the advantages and disadvantages of the test, they seem to be supplying GS with a steady stream of pupils that cope with the work and yield good results, so it can't be that misplaced.

Yamin - I honestly believe that despite being bright, and top of their respective primary classes, both of my boys wouldn't have made the cut-off score for a CEM test without professional tuition.

It's a known fact that half or more of CEM's vocab is re-cycled every year and that constitutes 20% of the mark. Why should I disadvantage my boys by not allowing them to have access to this list. And would they have come across and remembered the meaning of these extremely complex words through quality reading - I wouldn't have thought so.

[Pinecone]

Hi Yasmin151. I'm not bitter at all! I paid for both of my children to have a tutor in year 5 - I think tutoring is necessary these days or there's no point in turning up for the exam. I just don't think it's a fair system for those that don't have the resources to do it for their children.

[Yamin151]

I agree, why. Shouldn't you? Doesn't mean you 'bought your place' atGS. By contrast I think mine had pretty good maths skills but they were vastly strengthened by modest tutoring and that helped them in 'real' life curriculum too. Judging by the lists of words we saw, my boys reading history did in fact mean that this wasn't a difficulty for them, and that did come from a background of reading and not screening.

And home tutoring is possible. Doesn't have to be paid for. Search on CEM on YouTube and there are great tutorials (so you know I am not total anti screen)

[Tolstoy]

Interested that your think that bright and curious children don't read a lot Tolstoy. Why is that? Girls at KEVIHS are meant to have a reading book with them at all times and most do.

I don't think bright and curious DC don't read a lot. Some do some don't and some DC that read a lot are not necessarily bright or curious, they just enjoy reading. Your term 'well read' though would make me think of DC who read quality literature rather than any old tat.