Trying to make sense of offer & no offer of same score resul

[finners]

Firstly I hope you have all rec'd positive results over the weekend, & secondly apologies if this is posted in incorrect section.

My daughter sat the entry exam for Queen Mary's in Walsall & she scored just over 300 which on the letter from QM suggested probably not good enough this year, which is ok she did her best & this score should reflect her being in 'top set' at her local comp schools so friends/teachers advise us. We are happy she did her best & that's all you can ask, we didn't want to stress her out if she didn't get in.

That was rec'd Friday & then Saturday we rec'd letter from Wolverhampton Girls High School with the same score suggesting this is good enough for requesting a place - Now I am confused!

I thought it was one exam for all schools but does it mean QM take the top percentile, then WGHS & so on?

I am sure this is a silly question but does this mean she should apply for a place at WGHS or is still unlikely with her school results?

Many thanks if you can shed some light on this for me & I am sure her Mum is looking down & proud of her regardless, as am I!

[quasimodo]

Last years cut off for WGHS was 321 in March 2015 and fell below that from the waiting list not certain how far its fallen from anything I have seen posted.For QMHS it was 319 and the current waiting list is 315 or just above.

Terribly sorry for your loss it must be hard.

[finners]

Quas,

Thanks for the reply & I am sorry if I am coming across as thick (this was always the Bosses job & I am for the first time picking up the reins) does that mean the letter from WGHS stating that 'we would encourage you to include WGHS in the preference form' is a throw away line and the likely hood is she wouldn't get a place based on previous years results.

Many thanks re you final comment but as quoted in the Shawshank Redemption - I had two choices 'get busy living or get busy dying' and my kids needed me at the helm so I am simply muddling through best I can, & regardless if she gets in or not I am so proud of her efforts.

[Petitpois]

300 is a very good score mate. I know the end goal is a place, but three hundred is a very good score. It's been gutting for us because our friends were quite some way below that and I genuinely believed that my DD and her mates were not that far apart. Will know more once more meet people meet up tomorrow.

I think you raise a point of fairness regarding the letter. I thought the 313 sentence in the Queen Mary letter was condescending and rude. All they had to say was past experience has shown that the last person to get in off the waiting isn't usually below this average. No need for the rub your nose in it sentence, that could be construed as gratuitous.

I strongly suggest that you contact the school, WGHS and ask them why they sent you the letter. Let them explain and say nothing of what you know from this forum.

Kind regards , the two pieces of information are not consistent and WGHS should have sent you a letter saying not to apply, if the 300 is correct. One of them logically cannot be right.

Please keep us updated

cheers

[MSD]

I thought it was one exam for all schools but does it mean QM take the top percentile, then WGHS & so on?

No, it doesn't really work like that. Each school has an allocated PAN, published admission number. The PAN is commonly referred to the number of pupils in each year group that the admission authority has agreed will be admitted without causing problems for the school.

My understanding is that current PAN for WHGH is 145 and 120 for QMGH. Schools generally tend to offer 10 to 20% over the initial PAN figure as they know a lot of these offers will opt out and prefer a different school.

If they can't fill their PAN using the above offers, then they start picking candidates from the waiting list.

Coming back to your question, QMHS don't necessarily take higher percentiles. The last score admitted to any particular school really comes down to the number of parents putting that school down as first preference on local authority admissions form. You will find the most highly rated grammar schools to have a much higher cut-off, unless their PAN is higher than other schools.

To be honest 300 does seem a bit low for WHGH. But if they are advising you to put it down then there is nothing to lose. You will find that a score of 300 is 50th percentile, which would mean half of the all children taking the test scored above 300. For e.g. If 1000 children took the WHGH test, 500 would have scored above.

Hope that helps!

EDIT - I would like to add that WHGH have 25 more places as compared to QM. Hence, it's logical for their last cut-off to be lower(considering both schools were equally popular). I would guess that an extra 25 places would reduce the cut-off by approx 5 points. Could someone confirm if my PAN numbers for both schools are correct?

Sorry crossed with few posts

[Stroller]

finners, when did your daughter's mother die? No need to post the answer, but if it was recent rather than years ago, perhaps there are some grounds that would help you to appeal for a space. There would also need to be evidence of strong academic performance previously I suspect - sympathy alone won't create a place.

Either way, I wish you and your daughter all the best for secondary. Some people travel a harder road than others...

[Petitpois]

Hi MSD Do you know if its possible to work out percentiles? Presume you can only be truly only accurate if you know totals taking the test and they way the distribution of scores have occurred across the population, for that specific test.

50th percentile is likely to be 300, but presume it could wobble about from year to year say 298 one year compared to 305 another. is that right?/?

[quasimodo]

Finners it may assist to know the exact score as you say the score was just over 300.If it was anything between 300 and 313 then it is unrealistic to expect a place at either school based on last years offers.Whilst WGHS has a higher PAN it has a higher demand as compared to QMHS .A few years back there were just over 600 girls chasing 108 places it is now well over a 1000 chasing 145 places.

I live only 5 minutes from QMHS but we chose WGHS as our number one school with KE handsworth as our second choice. In my youngest dd's class from last academic year most of whom live in Walsall, from which about half went to Grammar schools none chose to go to QMHS, five boys went to QM boys ,one to KE Camp hill boys,three girls went to KE Handsworth girls, one to Sutton girls and my daughter to WGHS. Most parents consider the academic profiles of each of the schools as one of the major reasons for their decision if they have a choice of schools.

[ToadMum]

The standardised score of 300 will represent the mean raw score. What that mean raw score is, is what will vary from year to year.

[MSD]

Hi MSD Do you know if its possible to work out percentiles? Presume you can only be truly only accurate if you know totals taking the test and they way the distribution of scores have occurred across the population, for that specific test.

50th percentile is likely to be 300, but presume it could wobble about from year to year say 298 one year compared to 305 another. is that right?/?

PP - My understanding is that a SD score of 100 in a specific subject area equates to 50 percentile. However, a 300 score is made up of 3 subject areas and the scores could possibly be quite different across 3 subjects. E.g Maths - 125 , NVR - 100, English - 75.