Single sex schools

Eleven Plus (11+) in Birmingham, Walsall, Wolverhampton and Wrekin

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Eagle88
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:11 pm

Re: Single sex schools

Post by Eagle88 »

Petitpois wrote:I kind of get a little frustrated at the class size issue as much as single sex stuff.

Where state schools really fall over is the lack of tailoring to individual children's need by lumping 30+ kids in a room, boys and girls, interested parents vs non interested parents, SEN and then aiming for the average level 4 by year 6, out of fear of ofsted.

My DD is sick of having less able kids shoved on her desk by over stressed teachers, hoping that they will get help from her, freeing them up to concentrate on the really struggling kids.

One additional downside is that girls have a different focus to boys even in primary. Boys need education tailored to them. When you have a sausage machine education system, it is not surprising that boys can get left behind.

It is really hollow watching them spout hollow slogans such as "every child matters" and lets put the child at the centre of the conversation. Hard to argue against (like motherhood and apple pie), but used more often than not to paper over the cracks in a crumbling system.

If you can win the lottery and get a boys education, take it (and five ways ain't far off a boys education as well, despite it being nominally mixed).

BTW DD2 still hasn't got her pen licence, I am sure she should have been a boy
Your comments are always interesting, well written and entertaining … but I disagree with you here PP.

The vast majority of teachers have their heart in the right place and every child does matter to them and they generally go way beyond their duty to do the best for all kids. There are only so many hours in a day and one can only spread oneself so thinly though, so things do get missed … most teachers feel terrible about not having time to do everything they want to do and despise having to waste time on pointless administration and other tick-boxing exercises.

I have always encouraged students to share their learning with others – often when they are ‘teaching’ they learn how superficial their understanding is. Verbalising their ideas makes them apply logic and gives them confidence and depth. You will know this is you’ve ever felt tongue-tied when trying to explain something that you thought you already knew well.

I have always found that children are more than happy with mixed ability and are kind and thoughtful towards other students. The problems arise when parents get involved – its harder to educate parents than children!
Petitpois
Posts: 1440
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:44 am

Re: Single sex schools

Post by Petitpois »

Eagle88 wrote:
The vast majority of teachers have their heart in the right place and every child does matter to them and they generally go way beyond their duty to do the best for all kids.
Thank you for your kind words and I hope you have many more years as a teacher, if my guess is right.

I agree that vast majority of teachers have their heart in the right place. It is not they that decide that class sizes of 30 or more are acceptable. To say that there are systemic issues is not to criticise or be critical of teachers.

I do not doubt the point you make about the value of getting pupils to collaborate and I would go one step further, with an example. A kid in my DD class had scored lowly on this years KE test and was put on my DC table. Anyway he marked her stuff and she marked his stuff and there were a few errors identified, which she proceeded to assist with. Cut along story short it all ended up in tears. When we talked about it after, he was feeling a bit low as a result of scoring under 180. She was very mechanistic about the scenario, he checked mine and the deal was that I checked his, and since he got some wrong I needed to show him where he got it wrong.

After some longer discussion, we finally got round to her acknowledging the other child might have been a bit down and that perhaps she didn't need to focus so heavily on the technically incorrect aspect of what he had done. In others words an opportunity for her to developing soft skills around the subject as well as building understanding. All ended up good as she was asked to go away and reflect on what she could do differently next time.

Anyway to sum up all classes of more than 1 are always mixed ability. I would often prefer that teachers do not do more than what is required, as they just end up stressed and are not the best teacher they could be. Of the £733m spent on supply teachers last year, how much down to over work and stress???

For me it is about the looking at some of the systemic issues and my conclusion is that single sex is better and grammar single sex better still, with lower class sizes, as you remove more and more variables that get in the way of a good education.

I have been on the end of really atrocious comp teachers and some pretty good ones too. I simply disagree that all teachers are the same.
Eagle88
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:11 pm

Re: Single sex schools

Post by Eagle88 »

I left teaching after 20 years in London schools. Nearly every teacher I knew did their best for the kids they taught.

I now teach at university - which is wonderful but I can honestly say I never worked harder than in those 20 years teaching in (mostly) inner city schools but also private and grammar schools - they were all hard work in their own way.

I agree there are certainly issues with the UK education system - which is why, sadly, teachers are leaving the profession in huge numbers.

Come the revolution etc!

BTW I'm really pleased that your DD learnt something from her encounter but surely there was much for the other student to learn there too?!
How about resilience, being proud of giving it your best shot and not needing to 'win' at everything. You are clearly a great role model for your DD but the teacher ought to have made it clear (in a supportive way) to the other student in this instance that your DD was doing what she was supposed to do and, as I see it, didn't do anything wrong at all!
Last edited by Eagle88 on Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
nervousmom
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:38 am
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Single sex schools

Post by nervousmom »

There were only 4 DC out of 60 in DD school that took 11+.

1 got less than 200 but the other 3 including dd did well.
None of her friendship group took the exam so there have been no issues surrounding it. They were all really happy for her.

There is obviously pressure on the teachers and my dd is used by them to teach other kids.

During year 5 she was working through some of her lunch breaks helping another child with maths. This year she is helping another with spellings!

My question to her " how much are they paying you?" :lol:
Eagle88
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:11 pm

Re: Single sex schools

Post by Eagle88 »

nervousmom wrote:There were only 4 DC out of 60 in DD school that took 11+.

1 got less than 200 but the other 3 including dd did well.
None of her friendship group took the exam so there have been no issues surrounding it. They were all really happy for her.

There is obviously pressure on the teachers and my dd is used by them to teach other kids.

During year 5 she was working through some of her lunch breaks helping another child with maths. This year she is helping another with spellings!

My question to her " how much are they paying you?" :lol:
How wonderful that she helps out like this - for the other kids and for herself :)

She sounds like an absolute treasure!
WindowGlass
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:59 pm
Location: West Midlands

Re: Single sex schools

Post by WindowGlass »

I am late in on here, and this is seems to have gone slightly off topic, but ...

I don't mind DCs helping other DCs in school - if it's supervised. I know of one case where one DC was asked to do coach another. It was later found that the coach DC was setting homework for the other and marking it. The parents had known nothing about this arrangement and the teachers didn't know what had been going on! In some ways it was good idea, but comms and governance were not there.
ToadMum
Posts: 11946
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:41 pm
Location: Essex

Re: Single sex schools

Post by ToadMum »

WindowGlass wrote:I am late in on here, and this is seems to have gone slightly off topic, but ...

I don't mind DCs helping other DCs in school - if it's supervised. I know of one case where one DC was asked to do coach another. It was later found that the coach DC was setting homework for the other and marking it. The parents had known nothing about this arrangement and the teachers didn't know what had been going on! In some ways it was good idea, but comms and governance were not there.

Sorry, but I just read your post out to DS2 and we both had a good laugh :lol: .

On the subject of boys needing lessons tailored to them, I think DS2 would beg his English teacher at least, not to. One piece of work they were given earlier this term was a news report on a football match, something which he found more or less impossible to write...
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx
Eagle88
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:11 pm

Re: Single sex schools

Post by Eagle88 »

WindowGlass wrote:It was later found that the coach DC was setting homework for the other and marking it. The parents had known nothing about this arrangement and the teachers didn't know what had been going on!
Hilarious! :lol:
JaneEyre
Posts: 4843
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 1:04 pm

Re: Single sex schools

Post by JaneEyre »

Eagle88 wrote: The vast majority of teachers have their heart in the right place and every child does matter to them and they generally go way beyond their duty to do the best for all kids. There are only so many hours in a day and one can only spread oneself so thinly though, so things do get missed … most teachers feel terrible about not having time to do everything they want to do and despise having to waste time on pointless administration and other tick-boxing exercises.
Sadly, everything might got worse!
Talking about secondary schools, Mr Foulds, president of the Association of School and College Leaders (ASCL), has told the conservative conference : "There is a real danger that a system which is already under severe strain will reach breaking point and that schools will be forced to drop more courses and increase class sizes further.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34443359" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

personally, I can clearly see a difference in the secondary school education my DD and my DS have received (they have an age gap of nine years).
My DD had books to study languages; my DS have none (but for KS3, I used to buy them myself)
My DD studied General studies for her A levels; my DS will not.
My DD studied four AS subjects through her school (excluding General Studies and further maths). Apparently, my DS might study only 3 AS levels ( + or - further maths), but this matter of AS which are not half of the A2 is still a bit disconcerting for me.
This lack of width is particularly worrying for students who have not done yet their career choice at age 15-16; this extra AS used to be extremely important for many! Our DS is probably globally sorted for his choice of career but an extra AS would have suited him anyway because ‘knowledge is gold’ and this 'extra' AS was a good opportunity to gain more skills, which are far from being useless. For example, our DD took 'philosophy and ethics' as the 'fourth AS' and the course was captivating and she had the opportunity to think over issues which are extremely important nowadays and which concern everyone (like the thorny topic of euthanasia!).

The actual government has this word in his mouth: ‘cuts! cuts! cuts!’ However, is cutting the budget for education a wise choice? Where will the British pupils be in the international league tables in a decade or two or three if the money needed for them to acquire a wide knowledge is not paid for? Will Britain go on hiring doctors, teachers and engineers from abroad?

Rant over :wink: I feel better :lol: :lol: At least, I am not using swear words like Benedict Cumberbatch did during his rant about the plight of refugees :wink:
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