Attainment 8 scores for Bham Grammars

[um]

The Attainment 8 score is a new measure of performance which has been added to the 2016 performance tables.
Schools get a score based on how well pupils have performed in up to 8 qualifications, which include English, maths, 3 English Baccalaureate qualifications including sciences, computer science, history, geography and languages, and 3 other additional approved qualifications.

The Progress 8 is also being used now. This score shows how much progress pupils at this school made between the end of key stage 2 and the end of key stage 4, compared to pupils across England who got similar results at the end of key stage 2. This is based on results in up to 8 qualifications, which include English, maths, 3 English Baccalaureate qualifications including sciences, computer science, history, geography and languages, and 3 other additional approved qualifications.
The average Progress 8 score for 'mainstream' schools in England is 0. Mainstream schools are schools that aren’t special schools or 'alternative provision settings' (for example pupil referral units). Most schools score between -1 and +1. If a school scores +1 and above, it shows that pupils made exceptionally good progress. If the score is below -0.5, the school may come under increased scrutiny and receive additional support.
A score above zero means pupils made more progress, on average, than pupils across England who got similar results at the end of key stage 2.
A score below zero means pupils made less progress, on average, than pupils across England who got similar results at the end of key stage 2.
A negative progress score does not mean pupils made no progress, or the school has failed, rather it means pupils in the school made less progress than other pupils across England with similar results at the end of key stage 2.


I thought I'd list the local GS scores (Bham and Walsall shown) here.
I have listed name - Attainment 8 - Progress 8:

KECHB 77.4 /0.58
KECHG 74.9 /0.37
KEFW 73.6 /0.38
QMGS 72.8 / 0.5
SCGS 72.2 /0.4
KE Handsworth (Girls) 71.8 /0.31
KEA 69.6 / 0.25
QMHS 69.6 / 0.25
BV 68.3 / 0.1
Handsworth Grammar (Boys) 65.5 /0.22

[Guest55]

You need to add information about the confidence limits of this data ... and link to how it is calculated so people can see the limit of its usefulness.

[quasimodo]

Thanks for the information um.

This is a link to a BBC article where there is a further link for anyone who wants to find the further information on individual schools as suggested by Guest55 and the article itself explains the new secondary school tables.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38611850" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The following are information on the other schools in the Walsall and Wolverhampton consortium and Thomas Telford.

WGHS 73.5 / 0.41

Newport Girls High 72.6 / 0.36

Adams Grammar School 68.6 / -0.01

Thomas Telford School 63.1 / 0.40

[um]

You need to add information about the confidence limits of this data ... and link to how it is calculated so people can see the limit of its usefulness.

I spent some time collating the basic and published information above for parents who would find it useful to have it all in one place.
I trust that they are able to complete their own further research on it, as wished. Explanations are available on the DFE performance table website.

I therefore do not need to add further information to this post.

I did not suggest that the data was not to be used in context with other aspects of a school's provision.

[um]

Thanks for the information um.

This is a link to a BBC article where there is a further link for anyone who wants to find the further information on individual schools as suggested by Guest55 and the article itself explains the new secondary school tables.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38611850" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The following are information on the other schools in the Walsall and Wolverhampton consortium and Thomas Telford.

WGHS 73.5 / 0.41

Newport Girls High 72.6 / 0.36

Adams Grammar School 68.6 / -0.01

Thomas Telford School 63.1 / 0.40

Thank you

[Guest55]

I spent some time collating the basic and published information above for parents who would find it useful to have it all in one place.
I trust that they are able to complete their own further research on it, as wished. Explanations are available on the DFE performance table website.

I therefore do not need to add further information to this post.

I did not suggest that the data was not to be used in context with other aspects of a school's provision.

Yes, but without the information about confidence intervals ie the limit of the accuracy and a link to more detail then the data is misleading. So a score of zero is within a range of values.

For example: KEVI HS Progress 8 score 0.31, Above national average, Confidence interval (0.12 to 0.50)

The true value lies with 0.12 and 0.5, quite a range!

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ce-measure" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not all GCSEs are included and the progress is from KS2 levels so students without those results are excluded. Also any student who sits just 5 [for example] because they are ill or on a restricted curriculum scores 0 on subject 6, 7 and 8.

[um]

It is definitely a raw measure for many reasons.
You are right that there are going to be a number of children without KS2 SATs scores for Progress data.

The score required to get into KECHB is so high that its is fair to say that only exceptionally able boys and/or boys with exceptionally dedicated parents make it in.
It's therefore not exactly a surprise when these same boys go on to do exceptionally well at GCSE.

The two points that stand out to me from these results are:

Handsworth Grammar (Boys) traditionally lagged right behind the other Bham grammars. It is now (on Attainment 8 scores) coming up to par with KEA and BV.

The BV Progress 8 score of 0.1, which still just above average (could be below, given confidence interval) seems low.
Adams Grammar seems to have a very low Progress score too.

[OldTrout]

Not all GCSEs are included and the progress is from KS2 levels so students without those results are excluded. Also any student who sits just 5 [for example] because they are ill or on a restricted curriculum scores 0 on subject 6, 7 and 8.

I agree with the point that these scores are really something of an average and it may be wiser to view it as a range - but to be honest I was taught to look at these things to 2 standard deviations and I suspect the range the government provides is to one s.d. (probably because 2 s.d. would make this 'statistic' look like nonsense).

I think the EBACC uptake is pretty high at most grammars - so I think your first point, Guest55, may not be so relevant (I just looked at the KE grammars closely together (CHB/ FW/ CHG/ KEVI Handworth girls) on the Birmingham authority performance table - the lowest uptake of EBACC was 87% at KEFW - the others were 93% and above.

however I think no data at KS2 SATs may well be a factor here - this isn't our experience (we're from the state sector for primary) but my understanding is KS2 SATs generally aren't taken at independent primary schools. So these children in any of the grammar schools won't have KS2 SATs data with which to measure progress at GCSE, for example. Therefore they won't be included in the results.

However just comparing little fish's school (which scored higher than CHG on progress 8 measures) and CHGs - I thought the results made sense (as I've been tracking CVAs for low ability vs high ability at little fish's state non-selective secondary school). I know this is highly contentious but there is a general rumour out there that it is easier to show improved performance the lower the starting point and many secondaries directed resources on that C/D boundary to raise performance for low ability pupils and hit that all important 5 A*- C good GCSEs (including maths/ English). I don't know if this is totally true, I'm not a teacher or an expert (just a parent) - but I do think when you have very bright kids as an intake improvements (especially in areas of better planning skills, improved writing skills, improved research skills, improved speaking/ presentation/ debating skills, broadened vocabulary, wider experiences/ opportunities at high level, etc...) are really hard to measure in a standardised examination so I think the grammars would naturally not perform extremely well on that figure. The point to take away is that they are all in the positive zone - that 'on average' over any of the basket of GCSE exams considered (maths/ English/ history or geography/ a language/ acceptable options) kids are doing slightly better than expected (and expectations would have started quite high) - so 0.38 for CHG means on average girls score about 1/3rd of a grade higher than expected. At the level they've entered at in the school that strikes me as a good outcome.

As ever, the proof is in the pudding....

On GCSE & A Level results (not sure if AS will apply come the time for small fry) - it's quite clear they get fantastic results for their pupils.

And in terms of our needs as parents (or pupils) - it's the GCSE/ A Level results in terms of applying for University places that is crucial.

OT

[um]

The other issue is that very able children in that cohort could not score level 6 on SATs.
The current Year 11 cohort (taking Year 6 SATs in 2012) were the first to be able to take level 6 exams officially.
Before that, even if you were GCSE level, the highest you could get was a level 5.
Next year's Progress 8 results for the grammars could therefore show a drop, particularly for those grammars where a significant % of children arrived with level 6 scores.