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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
Posts: 1355
Location: Birmingham
For info, I have now updated the sticky at the top of this section with the content feedback we have received

https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/11plus/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14423

Thanks to Moshimoshi, veryhopeful, Thumbsup, Nard & Mum1115 for the feedback at the time


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Good to know the type of questions in 2016.

I just read the Birmingham test shared with Warwickshire, and the Warwickshire test can be used until the end of year 7 (so July 2018). Is it still okay to publish and discuss 2016 content?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Location: Birmingham
We were told by the B/Ham KE foundation that the test is not used after Christmas in the year following the exam.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 11:27 pm 
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It is not used in Birmingham, but can be used in Warwickshire until the end of July 2018 (as the test is shared).
Same as the 2015 test, which could be used until the end of July 2017 and was published on this site.
I suppose Warwickshire did not ask for removal as only a handful of children may take the test now, so they may not be bothered. Rather silly to keep using it when the waiting lists are dissolved.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:03 am 
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My understanding is that Ken has issued the test questions taken Sept 2016. This test can be used up to July 2017 (ie for one academic year). A new test would then be set for Sept 2017 (ie the Sept just gone) which can be used up to July 2018 (ie one academic year).

I think you are getting your years muddled up goodmum1.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:55 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
Posts: 7693
Location: Essex
kenyancowgirl wrote:
My understanding is that Ken has issued the test questions taken Sept 2016. This test can be used up to July 2017 (ie for one academic year). A new test would then be set for Sept 2017 (ie the Sept just gone) which can be used up to July 2018 (ie one academic year).

I think you are getting your years muddled up goodmum1.


This is from the Alcester Grammar School website:

3. In-Year Applications for Years 7 to 11
3.1. Change of School Application forms must be submitted to Warwickshire Admissions, and will
be processed on a first-come, first-served basis. If two or more applications for the same year
group are received on the same day then a random generator will be used to determine which
application is processed first.
3.2. Children moving into the area or currently living in the area who have not previously been
tested, and who are applying for a place in year 7 prior to the waiting list being dissolved on 31
December 2018, will be tested using the CEM Centre 11+ test and ranked against the other
children who have taken the test. Where such a child is already 12 the oldest age weighting will
be applied to their score.
3.3. Children moving into the area or currently living in the area who have not previously been
tested, and who are applying for a place in years 8 - 11, or in year 7 once the waiting list has
been dissolved on Monday 31 December 2018, will be required to take tests in English and
Mathematics arranged by the school. The pupil’s current school may also be asked to provide a
report. A place will be offered, subject to availability, if the applicant’s performance and school
report satisfy the Principal that the pupil’s ability is commensurate with that of the cohort into
which they are seeking admission.


It goes on to say:

3.4. New applications from children who have already been tested and refused entry as
non-qualifiers will generally be considered by taking into account the existing test results and
newer evidence of the child’s ability and performance in the non-selective school. A retest will
be used only where there are grounds and evidence to doubt the validity of the original tests in
determining the applicant’s aptitude.


So, for those who have already sat the 11+ and 'failed', the original test would be relevant whenever they were (re)applying, but the previous September's exam would only be administered for those not previously tested who apply before 31st December of year 7. So theoretically, the test itself could be in January; however, probably this would only apply to one or two children in any given year? Admittedly, though, it doesn't make it entirely clear whether the 'CEM 11+ test' they would take is the one that was administered that September (i.e. for entry the following year) or the one which the now year 7 applicants' actual cohort sat.

_________________
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:02 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:43 pm
Posts: 5
kenyancowgirl wrote:
My understanding is that Ken has issued the test questions taken Sept 2016. This test can be used up to July 2017 (ie for one academic year). A new test would then be set for Sept 2017 (ie the Sept just gone) which can be used up to July 2018 (ie one academic year).

I think you are getting your years muddled up goodmum1.


a) KenR kindly posted questions taken in Sep 2016.
b) This is for entry in Sep 2017.
c) One academic year is Sep 2017 - July 2018 for that cohort.
d) The test can be used in Warwickshire grammar schools for late sitters for year 7 entry until July 2018 for children who have not reached the age of 12.
e) One needs to look at the 2017 admissions policies (and not 2019).

E.g. K.E.S.

Year Applications for Years 7 to 11
3.1. Children who are over 12 years and not previously tested who are applying for a place (once the new Year 7 have been admitted) will be required to take tests in English and Mathematics arranged by the School. A place will be offered, subject to availability, if the applicant’s performance satisfies
the School’s Admissions Committee that the pupil’s ability is commensurate with that of the cohort
into which he is seeking admission.


SGGS (also test Science):

3.1. Children who are over 12 years and not previously tested who are applying for a place (once
the new Year 7 have been admitted) will be required to take tests in English, Mathematics
and Science
arranged by the School. A place will be offered, subject to availability, if the
applicant’s performance satisfies the School’s Admissions Committee that the pupil’s ability is
commensurate with that of the cohort into which she is seeking admission.

If under 12, the CEM test is used. If over 12, (in year 7) different tests are used as CEM claim they cannot standardise for 12 year old children. Other areas use the CEM test in year 7 for 12 year olds and standardise at the age extreme. This has been subject to various complaints with the Office for the School Adjudicator (OSA), who rejected all complaints, including how one can compare a CEM test with different tests and how it is fair to test NVR in CEM tests and not if over 12 and then compare children and rank on a waiting list (which CEM insist cannot be done, but the OSA state it can). In Warwickshire there are 2 concurrent CEM tests for different year 7 entry.

You may say clause 3.1 does not say CEM test is used for under 12. Please do not take my word for it, check with the local authority, and then you will realise I am correct and then respond on the thread.

KCG, I am not muddled. I have already checked the facts with the local authority. I am sure you had previously stated on the Warwickshire forum the test can be used for the entire year 7 as long as the child is under 12.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:29 am 
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Posts: 4670
Fair enough - please don't get antsy, it was an honest confusion - I was thinking about pre entry to the school not Y7 entry which would also be dependant on the waiting list (pre Christmas) and the school's waiting list post Christmas.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:10 pm 
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Posts: 5
Anyone read the Telegraph newspaper?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... aying-see/

Warwickshire and Birmingham 11+ is back in the news and seems back in Court. 2% of Birmingham children sat the test late and 20% sat late in Warwickshire. I find this astonishing.


The article even states:

“The Admissions Code is clear that late tests should only be permitted when a child was unable to sit the test at the original time.”

I am not sure if this is true. Surely, Warwickshire is compromising the testing process - it was Warwickshire that refused to allow out of area children to sit the test on the first date to stop them using the test as a free mock.

I just hate to think what all this legal action costs and how much they lose as full costs are never recovered and at the same time they cut transport for children. The Council is not even responsible for 11+ tests and the schools do not seek conflict and are not paying any legal fees.
If they lose this time, it will cost them thousands. Surely, it is a waste of money.

Wonders never cease.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:10 pm
Posts: 30
Wonders never cease how many profiles certain people create on a forum.


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