KE Aston v KE Handsworth boys

[Dadybear]

I have both my boys at both schools

Ke Aston wins by a country mile

Hgs is an outstanding school don't get me wrong my boy is thriving

I think it comes down to etiquette for me personally the way the boys behave at school the way they are when they leave the feel for Aston is better academically.

My sons friends are a lot better at Aston than hgs could be a personal thing i have seen a few bad Apple's around hgs


For me Aston over handsworth always

95% to 90% both outstanding schools don't get me wrong would never say a bad thing about any grammar academically

[helen0209]

When comparing grammar schools it is a moot point when looking at GCSEs A to C or 9 to 5/4. There is a reason why the top 50 or 100 schools use their 9-7 a* - a. Otherwise their is no differentiation between any of these schools or it would be negligable. I used the same data sets the schools use not just level 9 or A* as implied by second poster.

As I stated before I don’t believe just academic results are the best way to pick a school for your child but if you did then KEA trumps KEHGS. It is better to pick a school based on where you think they would be happiest, shorter travellling distance, friends etc

Mentioning pastoral care or reaching their full potential is unfair because unless you have any real data to show KEA is somehow failing (which is implied by that statement) in comparison to HGS then raising it as a point is pointless this is all subjective and people’s opinion can be skewed based on predjudice and preconditioned notions of the area.

I have said it before and will reiterate again on this website when comparing these two schools there is lot of misleading information. Whenever reading comments about these two there is always a downplaying of KEA achievements. This has unfortunately been going on even before the new headmaster for fiveways arrived and the gap was much bigger in terms of results. There has been a big improvement since and it is a great school but I do believe distance and travel time is probably the biggest differentiator between the two.

I apologise if you have misunderstood what my intended point was in a couple of areas. The HGS website shows their results in a variety of ways - it does show each subject by each grade, and also by A*-A and A*-C. My personal opinion was that I wouldn't just look at the A*-A or 9-7 (which was the 65% in Maths that was posted), I would look at the overall picture. GS or not, not every child is capable of achieving and A* in every subject, and to me B's and Cs are just as important.

I don't see why mentioning pastoral care and helping a child reach their full potential is unfair? My post did not infer that KEA was failing in this area - I do not have a child at the school so cannot pass comment. I agree that unless you have first hand experience of a school it is a very difficult area to be able to judge this. I can only see and comment on the progress that DS1 has made at HGS - he could quite as easily made the same at KEA. It is subjective to a certain extent, but is not made on any prejudice or preconditioned notions of the area - the area is irrelevant when it comes to progress, and to avoid any further misunderstanding, by that I am not inferring that there is anything wrong with the area.

I have never downplayed KEA's achievements, nor those of any school. The original post from Dad10 was merely asking for thoughts on his dilemma, to which I (thought I did) was to give him a few things to consider when making his decision.

I think what Dadybear says about etiquette and friends isn't necessarily a reflection on the school, but a child's upbringing (this could be contentious)! The school can only do so much to instil into a child how they should behave; a lot is down to the individual child and their parents.

I think that we are all in agreement that there are a number of things to consider when deciding on a school, and it needs to be where the child will be happiest for the next 5 - 7 years.

[Caveman47]

When comparing grammar schools it is a moot point when looking at GCSEs A to C or 9 to 5/4. There is a reason why the top 50 or 100 schools use their 9-7 a* - a. Otherwise their is no differentiation between any of these schools or it would be negligable. I used the same data sets the schools use not just level 9 or A* as implied by second poster.

As I stated before I don’t believe just academic results are the best way to pick a school for your child but if you did then KEA trumps KEHGS. It is better to pick a school based on where you think they would be happiest, shorter travellling distance, friends etc

Mentioning pastoral care or reaching their full potential is unfair because unless you have any real data to show KEA is somehow failing (which is implied by that statement) in comparison to HGS then raising it as a point is pointless this is all subjective and people’s opinion can be skewed based on predjudice and preconditioned notions of the area.

I have said it before and will reiterate again on this website when comparing these two schools there is lot of misleading information. Whenever reading comments about these two there is always a downplaying of KEA achievements. This has unfortunately been going on even before the new headmaster for fiveways arrived and the gap was much bigger in terms of results. There has been a big improvement since and it is a great school but I do believe distance and travel time is probably the biggest differentiator between the two.

I apologise if you have misunderstood what my intended point was in a couple of areas. The HGS website shows their results in a variety of ways - it does show each subject by each grade, and also by A*-A and A*-C. My personal opinion was that I wouldn't just look at the A*-A or 9-7 (which was the 65% in Maths that was posted), I would look at the overall picture. GS or not, not every child is capable of achieving and A* in every subject, and to me B's and Cs are just as important.

I don't see why mentioning pastoral care and helping a child reach their full potential is unfair? My post did not infer that KEA was failing in this area - I do not have a child at the school so cannot pass comment. I agree that unless you have first hand experience of a school it is a very difficult area to be able to judge this. I can only see and comment on the progress that DS1 has made at HGS - he could quite as easily made the same at KEA. It is subjective to a certain extent, but is not made on any prejudice or preconditioned notions of the area - the area is irrelevant when it comes to progress, and to avoid any further misunderstanding, by that I am not inferring that there is anything wrong with the area.

I have never downplayed KEA's achievements, nor those of any school. The original post from Dad10 was merely asking for thoughts on his dilemma, to which I (thought I did) was to give him a few things to consider when making his decision.

I think what Dadybear says about etiquette and friends isn't necessarily a reflection on the school, but a child's upbringing (this could be contentious)! The school can only do so much to instil into a child how they should behave; a lot is down to the individual child and their parents.

I think that we are all in agreement that there are a number of things to consider when deciding on a school, and it needs to be where the child will be happiest for the next 5 - 7 years.

I like what you've just said helen0209. Spot on...100% correct!

[crazycrofter]

The only people who can comment with any authority on a school are those who have children there. The views of those who have one at both, like Dadybear, are particularly relevant - but from what he's saying, the main difference he sees is between his sons' friends? This is really the luck of the draw. I can't believe that all the boys at KEA are superior to all the boys at HGS! There will be a mix at both.

For comparison, by son has had some grief on the green bus from KEA boys (there's only one other HGS boy on his bus) and he's told me he hates all the year 7 boys from KEA. Now I take that with a pinch of salt - I'm sure he'd find friends if he happened to be there. But the make up of a particular form or year is pot luck. I remember from my brief stint in teaching that some classes in the same school were lovely and some a nightmare.

Dadybear, do you have any insights on issues specifically related to the school, eg organisation, pastoral care, teaching?

[Ricky74]

I have no experience of KEA, but I've not seen anyone on this chat or forum speak in a derogatory way about it - certainly not Helen or Crazy, who were both complimentary towards it. I am hearing positive things about both KEA and HGS on here.

I do, however, have experience of two different boys' gs and two different boys (twins). Different schools suit different children. I believe my son at HGS is well suited to his school and my son at QMGS suited to his. Of course I have to say that. I find HGS more laid back (in a good way for my son) and QM more competitive (in a good way for that son). I learnt a lot in the past year that nothing beats happy sons at school - that's all we can ask for.

We all know on this forum that academics are important, but much does depend on the boy, on the transport and the best fit.

I know people with children at KEA and HGS who have had positive and negative experiences at both school. You'd find this at any school.

I am a supporter of these schools and greatly value the opportunity to have all of them on my 'doorstep'.

[bewilderedofbearwood]

I'm viewing this thread with interest as, if we are lucky, this may be a choice for us to make for our DS this Autumn. Handsworth is a more convenient location for us so I am interested to know if the facilities at Aston are regarded as better? We will be going to open days for both schools before the end of the summer term but the experiences of parents with children at these schools is so helpful.

[zuhud]

Hi,



I’m getting the impression that we got a little gang sheep mentality creeping into this thread so this is going to be my last post on this topic. Also please if you do plan to respond ....try to reply to all my points rather than picking one selectively.

Caveman47 your last comment I pictured you as a cheerleader

A few times on this forum when people have enquiries regarding these two schools in particular the common reply is academically results are the same. They are not. That is the point I am making.

I deliberately chose to highlight the core subjects and sciences. These are topics all children would be taking and examination boards tend to be same. I would not chose something like ICT from Pearson because it is a really easy test....I have a child I tutor who achieved an A in year 9 and was a “low attainer” at the end of KS2. I think he got 1s and 2s.

All quantitative data shows that KEA has historically and currently achieved better results so they are not academically similar.

The science gcse data is a good comparison because HGS have attempted to improve their triple science results by removing nearly three times there intake of ‘middle attainers’ and still cannot achieve parity. 34 students did the double sciences. (Also interested how schools do now that they are unable to play the system by doing core year 10 and additional year 11)

HGS
English. 24%. English lit. 39%. Maths. 65%
Aston
English 46%. English lit. 54%. Maths. 86%

HGS
Biology. 66%. Chemistry. 64%. Physics. 69%
Aston
Biology 78%. Chemistry. 79%. Physics. 82%

Crazycrofter made a valid statement.

’m not personally concerned about triple v double science. For a student stronger in the humanities or languages, dobig 3 sciences is unnecessary and a misdirection of time and effort.

So let’s look at the English baccalaureate data. This fulfils crazycrofter’s criteria.

Ebacc is KEA 76% v HGS 41%.

The data clearly shows to me that KEA is better at helping children reach their full potential with a wider variety of GCSEs. I consider every child at a grammmar school that does not achieve a minimum of a grade B in the facilitating subjects has been failed by the schooling that subject. I tutor kids (maths and science) that did not achieve 200 and in a comprehensive school will get Bs no problem. They are exceptions in languages or English. My opinion maybe harsh but it is fair. These children hitting above 200 in a CEM are all very bright and capable students.

Comparing the grammar schools of Birmingham to look at A to C %s is like squashing water.


The comment regarding its a calmer school wow this is an all boys school from experience I’m telling you they are a riot. Boys from different schools on the bus arguing is that supposed to be a revelation? I suggest you stand and observe both group of boys at the end of school and tell me if there is a difference in behaviour, if one group of boys is calmer than the other There are clips on youtube of children from both schools misbehaving badly. To try and insinute that these set of boys are better than these boys because such and such happened is ridiculous.


Both schools have excellent pastoral support, wide ranging sports and extra curricular activities. Pupils at both schools are well behaved, friendly and articulate. Both schools have children from varied backgrounds and from different parts of Birmingham. Just recently I had a nice long chat with a year 10 from Bartley green whilst attending KEA open evening. He had nothing but good things to say about the school other than .....travelling distance. Another child spoke about his experience with bullying and how well it was dealt with by the Teachers. If you will find comments in other older threads where parents have nothing but glowing things to say about KEA.

As to picking a school for your child, results are not the be all and end all. As I have said several times distance, travelling time and friends from primary school play a bigger factor. From personal experience sending my son to BV has caused me a lot of headaches. Child will have to travel longer, get home later, less time to relax because of homework, parents evening can be issue during rush hour, picking up child when sick.

[Caveman47]

Hi,



I’m getting the impression that we got a little gang sheep mentality creeping into this thread so this is going to be my last post on this topic. Also please if you do plan to respond ....try to reply to all my points rather than picking one selectively.

Caveman47 your last comment I pictured you as a cheerleader

A few times on this forum when people have enquiries regarding these two schools in particular the common reply is academically results are the same. They are not. That is the point I am making.

I deliberately chose to highlight the core subjects and sciences. These are topics all children would be taking and examination boards tend to be same. I would not chose something like ICT from Pearson because it is a really easy test....I have a child I tutor who achieved an A in year 9 and was a “low attainer” at the end of KS2. I think he got 1s and 2s.

All quantitative data shows that KEA has historically and currently achieved better results so they are not academically similar.

The science gcse data is a good comparison because HGS have attempted to improve their triple science results by removing nearly three times there intake of ‘middle attainers’ and still cannot achieve parity. 34 students did the double sciences. (Also interested how schools do now that they are unable to play the system by doing core year 10 and additional year 11)

HGS
English. 24%. English lit. 39%. Maths. 65%
Aston
English 46%. English lit. 54%. Maths. 86%

HGS
Biology. 66%. Chemistry. 64%. Physics. 69%
Aston
Biology 78%. Chemistry. 79%. Physics. 82%

Crazycrofter made a valid statement.

’m not personally concerned about triple v double science. For a student stronger in the humanities or languages, dobig 3 sciences is unnecessary and a misdirection of time and effort.

So let’s look at the English baccalaureate data. This fulfils crazycrofter’s criteria.

Ebacc is KEA 76% v HGS 41%.

The data clearly shows to me that KEA is better at helping children reach their full potential with a wider variety of GCSEs. I consider every child at a grammmar school that does not achieve a minimum of a grade B in the facilitating subjects has been failed by the schooling that subject. I tutor kids (maths and science) that did not achieve 200 and in a comprehensive school will get Bs no problem. They are exceptions in languages or English. My opinion maybe harsh but it is fair. These children hitting above 200 in a CEM are all very bright and capable students.

Comparing the grammar schools of Birmingham to look at A to C %s is like squashing water.


The comment regarding its a calmer school wow this is an all boys school from experience I’m telling you they are a riot. Boys from different schools on the bus arguing is that supposed to be a revelation? I suggest you stand and observe both group of boys at the end of school and tell me if there is a difference in behaviour, if one group of boys is calmer than the other There are clips on youtube of children from both schools misbehaving badly. To try and insinute that these set of boys are better than these boys because such and such happened is ridiculous.


Both schools have excellent pastoral support, wide ranging sports and extra curricular activities. Pupils at both schools are well behaved, friendly and articulate. Both schools have children from varied backgrounds and from different parts of Birmingham. Just recently I had a nice long chat with a year 10 from Bartley green whilst attending KEA open evening. He had nothing but good things to say about the school other than .....travelling distance. Another child spoke about his experience with bullying and how well it was dealt with by the Teachers. If you will find comments in other older threads where parents have nothing but glowing things to say about KEA.

As to picking a school for your child, results are not the be all and end all. As I have said several times distance, travelling time and friends from primary school play a bigger factor. From personal experience sending my son to BV has caused me a lot of headaches. Child will have to travel longer, get home later, less time to relax because of homework, parents evening can be issue during rush hour, picking up child when sick.

Zuhud apologies if I came across as a cheerleader. I just simply agreed with everything that was said. I do have excessive background in teaching in particular science.

Believe it or not I know quite a bit about both schools through my job. I'm a massive fan of HGS and always have been.

I do like your very last paragraph though as the most important thing is the child's holistic life in education. I have four children and two have come through the education system and both at Uni while my third child starts HGS September. Child number 4 is currently being tutored by me and hopefully will join his brother at HGS. I am in total agreement with you in terms of transportation to and from school and fitting in homework etc.

So once again I offer my apologies as I didn't want to come across as a cheerleader.



Once again I apologise

[Dadybear]

Hi

Thread is becoming a bit serious

As I said before I have first hand experience as I have one child in year 10 at Aston & one in Year 9 at handsworth

& No it's not just better friends at Aston

Visit both schools & stand outside both schools hgs finishes at 14:55 Aston at 15:35 & observe i have been doin it for 4 years you will see for yourself.

Results & teaching are way better at Aston more discipline & consistent homework with more guidance than hgs

I can see difference in my boys one is becoming a man more regimented more focused like the children at Aston

The other still a child no focus & arrogant like kids at hgs too many bad Apple's & influences

Please don't take my word just have a gander you will see for yourselfs

[conroyiwhiwhu]

Hi everyone,

My son has been offered a place at KE Handsworth boys. It is likely that he will be offered a place by Aston as he is quite high up on the waiting list. Distance wise they are about the same but Handsworth has the better public transport links.
I'm in a dilemna, some say leave at Handsworth as this school is rapidly progressing and some say accept Aston. Any thoughts would be welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Review of King Edward VI Handsworth Grammar School (Boys): https://goo.gl/maps/Wa5Uy9jNWqo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;