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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:14 am 
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It is quite shocking and alarming to see the cliqueness and elitism by those who have started this petition. The headlines ‘death to grammar schoools’ and ‘save our grammar schools’ are grossly misleading and creating mass hysteria and panic. People who are not aware of the exact nature and details of the new proposals are signing the petition even though the new proposals may actually benefit them. I have had several messages this morning from people forwarding this petition on requesting primary schools to sign. Parents of nursery aged children to sign as the grammar schools are ‘closing.’ Whatever opinion you hold on these new proposals, for or against, , points should be laid out coherently and factually and emotive hysteria kept at bay.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:26 am 
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smile123 wrote:
It is quite shocking and alarming to see the cliqueness and elitism by those who have started this petition. The headlines ‘death to grammar schoools’ and ‘save our grammar schools’ are grossly misleading and creating mass hysteria and panic. People who are not aware of the exact nature and details of the new proposals are signing the petition even though the new proposals may actually benefit them. I have had several messages this morning from people forwarding this petition on requesting primary schools to sign. Parents of nursery aged children to sign as the grammar schools are ‘closing.’ Whatever opinion you hold on these new proposals, for or against, , points should be laid out coherently and factually and emotive hysteria kept at bay.


Why would people do that when the facts don't portray their own agenda? A campaign ran on alarmism and half truths is the only way forward. :roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:39 am 
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MSD wrote:
KenR wrote:
Guest55 wrote:
Yes - that's what I meant anotherdad - much better for the schools and the students who won't have long journeys.


Not necessarily - these are not local catchments, these are based purely on Birmingham council ward boundaries - some are many miles away. For KEFW for example, Frankley (in Worcestershire) which is circa 1/2 mile from the school is outside the catchment, whereas Quinton and Harborne which are up to 6 miles away are within the catchment.


That is interesting, KenR. That then defeats one of the purposes that was outlined as the primary reason for proposals. i.e. reduce journey times

I belive they defined the catchment with council tax in mind,The areas that pays council tax to BCC are all under the catchment of one or the other gramar. I could be wrong


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:51 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
Posts: 1763
smile123 wrote:
It is quite shocking and alarming to see the cliqueness and elitism by those who have started this petition. The headlines ‘death to grammar schoools’ and ‘save our grammar schools’ are grossly misleading and creating mass hysteria and panic. People who are not aware of the exact nature and details of the new proposals are signing the petition even though the new proposals may actually benefit them. I have had several messages this morning from people forwarding this petition on requesting primary schools to sign. Parents of nursery aged children to sign as the grammar schools are ‘closing.’ Whatever opinion you hold on these new proposals, for or against, , points should be laid out coherently and factually and emotive hysteria kept at bay.

I wouldn't worry about silly petitions and WhatsApp groups. There is a proper consultation to which everyone is invited to contribute - supporting or opposing. That's the only proper forum the council and schools will consider and people quick to jump on a petition without really looking into it are probably unlikely to go to the trouble of contributing properly.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:05 am 
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apillow wrote:
MSD wrote:
That is interesting, KenR. That then defeats one of the purposes that was outlined as the primary reason for proposals. i.e. reduce journey times

I belive they defined the catchment with council tax in mind,The areas that pays council tax to BCC are all under the catchment of one or the other gramar. I could be wrong


You are probably spot on there Apillow! But you may find paying council tax wasn't certainly one of the criteria give for proposed consultation. Reducing travelling distance was, and that would have been better defined by having a blanket radius circle from school, rather than catchment. Defining catchments contradicts the purpose behind original proposals in some cases, as far as distance is concerned.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:20 am 
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nervousmom wrote:
piggys wrote:
I'll ask again: what are your objections, OP?


I have a number of reasons, which I have added to the consultation.

1 of the ressons is my daughter's safety!

She currently has a 35 minute journey on the Green Bus. This specific service will no doubt be cancelled at some point as it covers the now out of catchment area.

Her new journey will be 1 hour 42 minutes. Which will consist of a train journey and 2 buses!


I am sorry to hear that your bus service may be affected, but that is a big IF, whether Greenbus will continue or not, we are yet to know. Your daughter safety is important, but so is the safety of many other children I know from South Birmingham taking two buses or train to get to Handsworth or Sutton Colfield. Is their safety is of lesser importance?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:44 am 
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MSD wrote:
apillow wrote:
MSD wrote:
That is interesting, KenR. That then defeats one of the purposes that was outlined as the primary reason for proposals. i.e. reduce journey times

I belive they defined the catchment with council tax in mind,The areas that pays council tax to BCC are all under the catchment of one or the other gramar. I could be wrong


You are probably spot on there Apillow! But you may find paying council tax wasn't certainly one of the criteria give for proposed consultation. Reducing travelling distance was, and that would have been better defined by having a blanket radius circle from school, rather than catchment. Defining catchments contradicts the purpose behind original proposals in some cases, as far as distance is concerned.


The problem with the radius would be the overlap that would occur, especially for areas like Edgbaston which could possibly sit in every grammar school catchment areas.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:18 pm 
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And even a radius would be unfair to some. I doubt MSD over in Wolverhampton would be within the radius of any Birmingham school? And there would still be people living a few metres outside the edge of the circle or people who could get say to HGS on a bus in less than 20 mins but they’d be outside the circle.

Distance has to have a cut off and those outside will feel put out. I think on balance they should change the final category to be in line with category 4 so that children scoring over 220 outside the catchment are ordered by distance from school. This seems in line with the reasons behind the changes.

People have been saying that the independents will benefit from more high scorers from outside Birmingham going their way. I think they’ll also get more lower scorers from Birmingham ie those scoring between 210 and 219 who used to be able to choose HGS or KEA and will no longer have that option. Arguably the independents will lose quite a few in the 220s who will now have the option of FW or the Camp Hill schools. If you look back there’s always a few who choose KES/KEHS for this reason - my daughter was one, as it was a nearer option than Sutton girls for us in south Birmingham.

So overall I can’t see that these proposals will necessarily benefit the independents at all and I’m sure that’s not why they’ve been proposed - contrary to what the petition suggests!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:50 pm 
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I have only just had the opportunity to read the petition....there have been some awful ones on Change.org in the past - I have at times been minded to sign one or two, but this one is truly awful...! It's not greatly worded (although appears designed to raise a level of hysteria amongst people who do not read it properly) and some of the comments are not well informed. All which adds to the fact that it is unlikely anyone with any clout will pay attention to the petition - I suspect that it will only serve to dissuade people from recording their true opinions on the forum that counts - the actual consultation survey - as they will "believe" they have voiced their opinion - so, actually, the petition is likely to end up helping the consultation process.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:00 pm 
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kenyancowgirl wrote:
I have only just had the opportunity to read the petition....there have been some awful ones on Change.org in the past - I have at times been minded to sign one or two, but this one is truly awful...! It's not greatly worded (although appears designed to raise a level of hysteria amongst people who do not read it properly) and some of the comments are not well informed. All which adds to the fact that it is unlikely anyone with any clout will pay attention to the petition - I suspect that it will only serve to dissuade people from recording their true opinions on the forum that counts - the actual consultation survey - as they will "believe" they have voiced their opinion - so, actually, the petition is likely to end up helping the consultation process.

Exactly. It will leave the considered, informed views from all sides undiluted by all the emotive and misguided nonsense that is evident on the petition. In that sense, the petition is a very effective decoy.


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