Birmingham Grammar Catchment Area

[OldTrout]

OldTrout I don't think you've grasped the qualifying score and priority scores and find your post quite confusing

Hi Wildfuture:

I'm sorry you found my post confusing.

Qualifying score is the minimum score for pupils (non-PP and PP) - and again my apologies - first off the qualifying score for PP is notionally 205 (I forgot to mention that in text above - but see also Hermanmunster Birmingham Grammars 2019-2020 sticky at top of Birmingham et al discussions).

The qualifying score for non PP is 220. It is important to understand that is the minimum score to qualify a child for a place (pupils scoring below that will not be considered) - but it does not guarantee entry - the school could in theory be full of pupils in catchment on higher scores. [look at the Admissions for Year 7 page at Camp Hill Girls which explains this - for example]

What I'm trying to make clear is that the old priority score system (in previous years with no catchment) is still in play with highest score considered first (and in light of other criteria - in care/ distance/ etc...), and then the next score at that level or below, and so on.

The point I was trying to make is that there is likely to be a range of scores from somewhere around 250+ down to 220 for non-PP (and 205 for PP) - for each score the number of pupils achieving that score will increase the closer to 220 (non-PP)/ 205 (PP) they are (e.g. in theory only a few pupils will score 250+, but 10s of pupils will score in the 240s and even more in the 230s and again in the 220s.

Lowering the qualifying score to 220 for places like Camp Hill Boys (non PP cut off 249 in 2018/ PP cut-off 222)/ Girls (non-PP cut off 238 in 2018/ PP cut off 221) should mean that many more pupils previously not even considered but resident within the relevant catchments are now likely to qualify by priority of score/ additional criteria for the school.

Hope that's clearer - and again my apologies - but the priority score bit has traditionally been the rank order of the scores in addition to other criteria (in care, distance, etc...).

But as my name implies - I'm rather old and working from previous terminology which may be out of date (but it appears KECHG are still using).

OT

[OldTrout]

Just checked both Camp Hill Girls and Boys

Priority score mentioned by Hermanmunster not mentioned in admissions criteria for Y7 from 2019

instead qualifying score is mentioned.

On KECHB bumph it is explained as: In order to be eligible for admission to the school, candidates must
achieve a minimum standardised score in the selection test (“the
qualifying score”).

I realise I'm a very old thing - but admissions in terms of priority (which may have spawned 'priority score') is how it's always been done - so the score your child achieves first has to qualify (i.e. be above the 220 (non-PP)/ 205 (PP) threshold and then will be considered in rank order - so for non-PP/ PP places - highest score (if a tie by other criteria (sibling/ in care/ etc...) and then distance) and so on until all places are filled.

The likelihood is there will be very high scores (250+) but very few scoring them
Many scores in the 240s - with progressively more pupils scoring this the closer to 240 you get
Even more scores in the 230s - with progressively more pupils scoring this the closer to 230 you get
I would expect around 20+ pupils per score below 230 to 220

I think it is fair to assume that given the qualifying scores are generous - the schools are highly likely to be filled by applicants within catchments.

If there are unfilled places at a school once all in catchment applications are considered - the school will then consider admissions outside of catchment. The criteria (in care/ sibling/ distance will apply) - so in theory a high scoring child in care out of catchment will be considered ahead of an equally high scoring child with a sibling in the school and then a equally high scoring child living nearest to the school will be considered).

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The good news is sixth form applications are easier - genuinely.

[Wildfuture]

OldTrout your interpretation is not correct. A child in care (assuming achieves the required score) is considered as highest priority regardless of address.

You also seemed muddled about qualifying and priority scores. Say for example the qualifying score is 205, nobody under that score will be considered.
Anyone scoring over the qualifying score will be considered, but the circumstance will dictate which category they fall under, e.g. 206 in catchment is category 5, whereas 225 in catchment is category 4. Everyone (not in care or pp) living outside catchment falls into cat5.

Category 4 is not ranked by score, category 5 is.

[OldTrout]

OldTrout your interpretation is not correct. A child in care (assuming achieves the required score) is considered as highest priority regardless of address.

You also seemed muddled about qualifying and priority scores. Say for example the qualifying score is 205, nobody under that score will be considered.
Anyone scoring over the qualifying score will be considered, but the circumstance will dictate which category they fall under, e.g. 206 in catchment is category 5, whereas 225 in catchment is category 4. Everyone (not in care or pp) living outside catchment falls into cat5.

Category 4 is not ranked by score, category 5 is.

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Hi Wildfuture -

I agree that I was completely muddled about the qualifying and priority scores - I think because I was thinking through the criteria as priority for entrance (as in old regulations) - and do now understand that this is the 'floor' score for admissions - pupils scoring below this 'priority' score will not qualify at all for entry.

Apologies for confusion - hadn't read all regulations/ posts completely through.

Also agree criteria 4 (sibling) criteria is not based on score - hadn't appreciated that - providing the qualifying score has been achieved - and providing they are within catchment - then offers will be based on distance to school.

I presume - that if the school goes on to consider candidates outside of catchment then criteria 4 will come into play and then distance to school will determine order of offers.

Apologies all for confusion - OT

[hermanmunster]

OldTrout your interpretation is not correct. A child in care (assuming achieves the required score) is considered as highest priority regardless of address.

You also seemed muddled about qualifying and priority scores. Say for example the qualifying score is 205, nobody under that score will be considered.
Anyone scoring over the qualifying score will be considered, but the circumstance will dictate which category they fall under, e.g. 206 in catchment is category 5, whereas 225 in catchment is category 4. Everyone (not in care or pp) living outside catchment falls into cat5.

Category 4 is not ranked by score, category 5 is.

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Hi Wildfuture -

I agree that I was completely muddled about the qualifying and priority scores - I think because I was thinking through the criteria as priority for entrance (as in old regulations) - and do now understand that this is the 'floor' score for admissions - pupils scoring below this 'priority' score will not qualify at all for entry.

Apologies for confusion - hadn't read all regulations/ posts completely through.

Also agree criteria 4 (sibling) criteria is not based on score - hadn't appreciated that - providing the qualifying score has been achieved - and providing they are within catchment - then offers will be based on distance to school.

I presume - that if the school goes on to consider candidates outside of catchment then criteria 4 will come into play and then distance to school will determine order of offers.

Apologies all for confusion - OT

If they are out of catchment it will be criteria 5 and this is based on score - it is a very complicated admission process

[OldTrout]

Hermanmunster

Indeed - this new system is complicated - as I said before 6th form applications seem a lot easier - although currently going through GCSEs with little fish (at local comprehensive) - so that whole worrying about achieving good scores seems very familiar.

However, once this new system is settled in - I have every confidence this forum will have all this beautifully explained to help parents going through this!

Best of luck everybody!

OT

[hermanmunster]

Hermanmunster

Indeed - this new system is complicated - as I said before 6th form applications seem a lot easier - although currently going through GCSEs with little fish (at local comprehensive) - so that whole worrying about achieving good scores seems very familiar.

However, once this new system is settled in - I have every confidence this forum will have all this beautifully explained to help parents going through this!

Best of luck everybody!

OT

Can see I will have a flowchart on the wall when it comes to CAF / allocations time!
Hope all goes OK with 6th form applications

[fm19]

Much as I do not want to disagree with OldTrout as she is one of the most sensible people on this forum, I think she may have this a little wrong.

The priority score is the one which applies to those in catchment so possibly 224 and 206 for non-PP and PP.

The qualifying score is the one below which they will not take children so possibly 216 and 202, respectively.

These are just speculative figures for illustration purposes only.

Children are then allocated places as usual on the 1st of March.

You will then get the usual number (possibly more than usual) opting for independents instead, freeing up places for those on the waiting list.

The Foundation will then go down their waiting lists, replacing children who have declined the place with children in the same 'category' as the one declining if they are available, but will not go below the qualifying score.

This is my understanding of the process, having talked to someone in the Foundation Office, although I could have misunderstood.

On a slightly different note, I don't think people need to be concerned that places will somehow all go to children in the first few categories as I suspect very few 'looked after' children sit this exam and I have some doubts that all schools are managing to fill their PP allocation either at the moment.

The main changes I see are the grammar schools having a more even spread of ability and less children doing huge commutes, both of which are arguably a good thing for most schools and children.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong and often am!

[hermanmunster]

The Foundation will then go down their waiting lists, replacing children who have declined the place with children in the same 'category' as the one declining if they are available, but will not go below the qualifying score.

Very useful - I was wondering about how they would manage the waiting lists, effectively means several lists

[Wildfuture]

The Foundation will then go down their waiting lists, replacing children who have declined the place with children in the same 'category' as the one declining if they are available, but will not go below the qualifying score.

Very useful - I was wondering about how they would manage the waiting lists, effectively means several lists

Let's assume there are no late additions to the waiting lists. There won't be anyone on a waiting list that falls under category 1 or 2 as they are all offered.

Might be a small number on the waiting list in category 3.

If the foundation are right in saying there will be places left for out of catchment (cat 5) children, this means there won't be a cat4 waiting list either.