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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:01 am 
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Well if we were applying this year we'd certainly be putting 2 down, CHB is vastly easier to get to than Five Ways which would be our catchment. And you lose nothing by going for it when you have 6 options on the CAF.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:06 pm 
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Location: West Midlands / warks border
I have two at FW and I'm disappointed that my younger children won't have the opportunity to go (annoying because I thought I could pass the uniform down!)

We would obviously come under the sibling category, but I'm sure I read or saw that this will only be a temporary measure?

With this in mind, plus the travel complication from a reduced Green Bus service, it makes sense for us to completely rule out FW and concentrate on the Warwickshire schools instead.

Is anyone aware of any possible changes to the Warwickshire schools admission process?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
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Location: Birmingham
nervousmom wrote:
I have two at FW and I'm disappointed that my younger children won't have the opportunity to go (annoying because I thought I could pass the uniform down!)

We would obviously come under the sibling category, but I'm sure I read or saw that this will only be a temporary measure?

With this in mind, plus the travel complication from a reduced Green Bus service, it makes sense for us to completely rule out FW and concentrate on the Warwickshire schools instead.

Is anyone aware of any possible changes to the Warwickshire schools admission process?


I'm not aware that Warwickshire are planning to replace priority circles with Warwickshire Local Authority Boundary based catchments, although after the Birmingham KE Foundation implemented this I'm sure it must have been discussed. The KE announcement came too late for Warwickshire to include this in their 2020 admissions consultations but we will have to wait and see if they plan to do anything about this for 2021. The problem for Warwickshire would be the effort and cost in switching for 2021 - if they do get a lot of Solihull and Wythall applications for 2020 (because of KE catchments) then they may decide to do something about it. Not sure if the Warwickshire Council Education discussions are published.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:57 am 
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Siblings are only relevant in equal-score tie breaks anyway. I would think they'd be a huge factor in who gets in from category 3 if they're undersubscribed from category 2, and an important factor in category 4 if they're ever oversubscribed in that one, but I can't see them having very much influence on admissions from category 5 (simply because I'd expect the scores needed from category 5 to be high enough that there won't be many equal score tie breaks).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:38 am
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Location: West Midlands / warks border
We have 6 choices on our form, but really think putting FW would actually be a waste.

We will be 2021 admission.

Although our address is Solihull, West Midlands, we are actually Warwickshire (some pre-fill addresses do come up Warwickshire!)

Our LEA is Warwickshire, so any changes from priority circle to Warwickshire boundary wouldn't be an issue. However, I have a nephew who is priority circle, but not Warwickshire and not Birmingham catchment either. Any changes to warks would leave him without a GS option!

One positive for us though, my DS won't be under as much pressure going for warks due to the lower scores!


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:12 pm
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Location: Birmingham
nervousmom wrote:
We have 6 choices on our form, but really think putting FW would actually be a waste.

We will be 2021 admission.

Although our address is Solihull, West Midlands, we are actually Warwickshire (some pre-fill addresses do come up Warwickshire!)

Our LEA is Warwickshire, so any changes from priority circle to Warwickshire boundary wouldn't be an issue. However, I have a nephew who is priority circle, but not Warwickshire and not Birmingham catchment either. Any changes to warks would leave him without a GS option!

One positive for us though, my DS won't be under as much pressure going for warks due to the lower scores!


I've had a look through the Warks Council Minutes on the Warks website and can't see any discussions regarding changes to the Warks Admissions along the lines of the KE Foundation. That's not to say that there haven't been any off the record discussions. As you are a Wark resident you might want to drop an email to your local County Councillor and ask the question. As a resident they are obliged to formally respond


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:54 pm
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Ken, could you possibly message me as I don't seem to be allowed to message as I have just re-registered and it won't let me do it?

Just wanted to give you some statistics on Birmingham admissions.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:48 pm 
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fm19 wrote:
Ken, could you possibly message me as I don't seem to be allowed to message as I have just re-registered and it won't let me do it?

Just wanted to give you some statistics on Birmingham admissions.

You should be able to message now your first post has been approved


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:21 pm
Posts: 386
mike1880 wrote:
Well if we were applying this year we'd certainly be putting 2 down, CHB is vastly easier to get to than Five Ways which would be our catchment. And you lose nothing by going for it when you have 6 options on the CAF.


Hi - we're not affected by these changes but my youngest is at Camp Hill Girls and we parents have been sent some information during the consultation on the entry requirement changes - so although I'm no expert this is my view on Mike's idea:

If you are going to be optimistic that your child may score high enough to get into an out of catchment school - then place that grammar higher than your in catchment grammar on the secondary school application. (i.e. if you want your child to go to Camp Hill but live in FW catchment, place Camp Hill in Position 1/ and Five Ways in Position 2.)

However - just because your child scores outstandingly well does not guarantee them entry. Remember they will only consider applicants by priority score (for which read from highest score downwards + other criteria (in care/ distance/ sibling/ etc...) from outside the catchment area if - and only if - they have not filled enough spaces (for non-PP or PP pupils).

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Just to revisit qualifying score vs. priority score:

qualifying score is the same for all grammar schools in Birmingham: 220 I believe.

So this is the minimum score the schools have arrived at for entry. (In other words they've agreed that pupils scoring 220+ all go on to do well at the schools and perform exceedingly well at GCSE/ A-Level for any of the Grammar Schools in Birmingham).

Priority score: this is the rank of each score from highest score achieved down to 220. So some clever clogs will score 250+ - they're likely to be in position 1 for their catchment grammar school. They're also likely to be in position 1 for out of catchment grammar school in Birmingham - but bear in mind (as discussed above) this will only be considered if the grammar school has not filled all its places.

As we've endlessly discussed over the years on this forum - for every score below this 250+ as you go downwards more kids will have achieved that score. So for example, my little fish (now Y9 KECHG) scored 235 and was one of the last to make entry on national offer day back in March of 2016 - but then through the waiting list process a number of other pupils on 235 and scores below that gained entry. They also had people join the school in the January of 2017 (again on the next scores down on the waiting list).

I also think it should be pointed out that there can be an assumption that Pupil Premium students are low scoring - in fact the reality is that they score as high as any other pupil - so although the pupil premium cut-off scores have ranged from 204 - 229 across the various Birmingham grammar schools in previous years most PP pupils scored well above those cut-offs.

What isn't clear is whether many PP students are from outside their current school's catchment or even outside Birmingham? This is an unknown - so if you are PP and live in Birmingham - this definitely is the year to consider giving a Birmingham grammar a try if you're interested. The number per school also varies - so at Camp Hill Girls for example it will be 38 PP students for 2020 entry. Each school has that information on their website under Admissions Y7.

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So to recap - the priority score for the grammar catchment works exactly as it did before (entry offers go by highest score and then next highest and so on until all places are filled - and consider criteria like in care/ sibling/ distance etc....) but will start with only those applicants living in the catchment of the grammar school down to the score 220. [so for example 4 pupils score 230 - pupil 1 is in care so will have priority over the other 3/ pupil 2 is PP so will have priority over the next 230 scores and pupil 3 lives closer than pupil 4 so will have prioirty over pupil 4. Pupil 4 will be offered the next place (if available) and have priority over all pupils scoring 229]

If following this system the school still has places available then those pupils which have selected the school out of catchment will be considered in accordance with the rules by priority score and other considerations (in care/ pupil premium/ sibling/ etc....).

In the case of a sibling already at the school - two pupils may have scored 240 - but one has a sibling at the school - the pupil with the sibling will have priority over the other pupil, even if that pupil lives closer in the catchment. I also strongly suspect the sibling criteria may well come into offers to pupils outside of school catchments initially - because there will be pupils at the school who now technically are 'out of catchment'. What is not clear is whether schools will be full from in-catchment applicants scoring from 250+ to 220 - bearing in mind that 220 is considerably below some cut off scores for these schools in previous years.

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This is only anecdotal - but I know of many pupils who have scored between 220 - 230 in Birmingham and failed to get into one of the grammar schools - so my impression is that this new system is likely to ensure that Birmingham children living within the catchment area for a particular grammar school now are more likely to get into that grammar school than before.

Hopefully the green bus system will also take into account the new catchment areas and re-arrange routes for people at the outer edges of catchments so that they can get to and from school more directly than taking several Birmingham buses.

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Hope that makes sense

OT


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:10 pm
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OldTrout I don't think you've grasped the qualifying score and priority scores and find your post quite confusing


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