Grammar system is brutal...

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SVK
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:04 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by SVK »

In an ideal world, bright children will shine through. But the world we live in is far from that.
My kids went to a struggling local state school in a deprived area where teachers are kind but school resources are stretched between pastoral care and counselling fund.
My kids made it without PP, but I sacrificed my time and energy, self tutoring them. Undoubtedly many bright kids will miss the opportunity. And we are up against pupils from prep schools and renowned tutors.
I considered myself lucky that I had time and limited resources to help my kids. The system is brutal but getting rid of grammar school means children like mine will have even less chance of getting ahead. I wish they had not tried to abolish grammar school back then. It is what it is, tempering only made it worse.
double_aces
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2021 10:24 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by double_aces »

@ Just Outside

I agree with your point that heavy tutoring has marginal impact on the success rate of the exceptionally bright DCs (with some support). However, they are the more of the outliers (on normal distribution curve)

I think the bigger impact is felt on marginal candidates (scoring 220-30), and access to resources may make that crucial difference.

In my small sample size (all of similar intelligence) ive noticed a correlation between tutoring and score. 338 (3 yrs) to 201 (home tutored).

Admittedly the argument above isn't statistically significant, but even with my own DCs (relatively bright, but always borderline candidates), we managed to just get them over the line by a combination of tutoring, CME books and support at home.

I'm just musing, hope I'm not upsetting anyone.
Moonsun
Posts: 116
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:03 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by Moonsun »

If it is so competitive why is it that children from as far as derby are allowed in. Its unfair on birmingham kids who miss out and derby kids who have to trek a long way.
hermanmunster
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Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by hermanmunster »

Moonsun wrote:If it is so competitive why is it that children from as far as derby are allowed in. Its unfair on birmingham kids who miss out and derby kids who have to trek a long way.
It was much worse at one point until they changed the process to effectively give preference to the in catchment children who passed the exam and make it harder for OOC children to get a place. Many of those who now get in to CHB for example wouldn't have done previously, their scores would not have been enough with large numbers coming from a much greater area.
jagfpm
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:04 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by jagfpm »

hermanmunster wrote:
Moonsun wrote:If it is so competitive why is it that children from as far as derby are allowed in. Its unfair on birmingham kids who miss out and derby kids who have to trek a long way.
It was much worse at one point until they changed the process to effectively give preference to the in catchment children who passed the exam and make it harder for OOC children to get a place. Many of those who now get in to CHB for example wouldn't have done previously, their scores would not have been enough with large numbers coming from a much greater area.

We are Walsall based and when we went to take the QM test, there were several parents I met that had come from derby, Nottingham & Leicester. One told me they had an older child at CHB but were now more hopeful of a place for their younger child at BV or QM. Personally, I couldn’t put my child through a daily commute like that for 5 years. But each to their own.
hermanmunster
Posts: 12817
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by hermanmunster »

jagfpm wrote:
hermanmunster wrote:
Moonsun wrote:If it is so competitive why is it that children from as far as derby are allowed in. Its unfair on birmingham kids who miss out and derby kids who have to trek a long way.
It was much worse at one point until they changed the process to effectively give preference to the in catchment children who passed the exam and make it harder for OOC children to get a place. Many of those who now get in to CHB for example wouldn't have done previously, their scores would not have been enough with large numbers coming from a much greater area.

We are Walsall based and when we went to take the QM test, there were several parents I met that had come from derby, Nottingham & Leicester. One told me they had an older child at CHB but were now more hopeful of a place for their younger child at BV or QM. Personally, I couldn’t put my child through a daily commute like that for 5 years. But each to their own.
That is awful. I went to school in Birmingham (many decades ago) and had a long journey each way (OK Solihull to Edgbaston so not that far but 2-3 buses and it took forever on a cold wet day) - when my kids were going to senior school we bought a house where you could see the schools out of the kitchen window, several of my friends who had had similar travel also made sure that their children went to nearer schools.
SVK
Posts: 81
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:04 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by SVK »

When all other Birmingham grammars started the catchment rules 2 years ago, Sutton schools opted out.

I thought at that time that the cut off score for SG and BV would rise steeply as they would absorb all the brightest out of catchment pupils.

Two years later, cut off in March were 211 for SG and 221 for BV, still less than the priority score of other Birmingham grammars. So I wonder if this is the end result they were hoping for or if they have failed at what they set out to achieve.
hermanmunster
Posts: 12817
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by hermanmunster »

I agree SVK, I have been intrigued by the BV / SCGS scores - I thought they would rise with them being one of the few "non-catchment" schools around - the concern was that people were going to start doing some mammoth travelling to get there but it doesn't seem as though that is the case
jagfpm
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:04 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by jagfpm »

QM is within walking distance to us and is actually the closest senior school. BV is a 15 min car ride. Even HWB & ASTON are both within 15 mins from us. Maybe easy for me to say as we have good access to grammar schools where we are based. But I’ve always had the local comp, which luckily is also a decent school, as one of my options if grammar didn’t work out. I couldn’t imagine my kids having to miss after school clubs and stuff cos we would be in a rush to make the 1 hour plus commute home.
Richard111
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:04 pm

Re: Grammar system is brutal...

Post by Richard111 »

You need to look south. The marks for king Edwards Stratford upon Avon have rocketed. This is much easier commute due to the trains. In my opinion the catchment area approach taken by birmingham has lowered the standards and will no doubt be reflected in the their results in several years time.
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