Out of county applicants for 2019 test

[Tinkers]

Judging by some of the local posts on FB certainly there are people in Reading who consider putting down Bucks schools on their CAF. If I see them I do make the comment that they don’t have any chance of a place and give them allocations distances.

However I suspect for every one that asks (and gets told it’s not going to happen) there’s at least another who doesn’t ask and sticks it on the CAF anyway.

[scary mum]

Judging by some of the local posts on FB certainly there are people in Reading who consider putting down Bucks schools on their CAF. If I see them I do make the comment that they don’t have any chance of a place and give them allocations distances.

However I suspect for every one that asks (and gets told it’s not going to happen) there’s at least another who doesn’t ask and sticks it on the CAF anyway.

A lot of them will know older children at BGS, and so will think there is a chance, when there really isn't these days. My children have all had class mates traveling from Reading, and after all, it is an easy journey from the centre of Reading.

[singlemum4]

A happy lurker indeed! And thank you for that. I did tell my child to be circumspect when starting at school just in case they encountered any of the somewhat scary "if you want to benefit from Bucks schools, move to Bucks" people! (Actual comment.) I suppose I just wanted to point out that I certainly understand where this comes from (I grew up in a county which has the same system, with all its flaws and advantages - and it was previous generations who tramped the streets to keep the grammar schools, not ours - we're just the beneficiaries or the ones stuck with such an unfair system, depending on your point of view). It is quite often a matter of luck though, isn't it, especially when catchments (or whatever the correct term is) move from eg 5 miles to 12 and back to 3.... you would try, in hope, wouldn't you?...
I can't say I haven't been tempted to post "I live in Bath and would love a place at Wycombe High.....can any of you lovely people tell me if that's going to work"
Anyway... thank you!

[Sally-Anne]

A happy lurker indeed! And thank you for that.

Very pleased to have unearthed you!

[pippi]

I believe that this was discussed at the meeting because the Heads recognise the issue but as it would be illegal, nothing ever came of it. See this report in the TES https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source= ... 4771112649

That was referring to the possible use of different standardisations for in-County and out-of-County children. They're not doing that, because they don't have to. The Heads simply decide in advance how many in-County children they want to pass, and adjust the standardisation so that that happens. It doesn't matter how many long-distance children pass, because, as Sally-Anne has pointed out, hardly any of them will be allocated a place.

just change the standardisation such that distant applicants don't displace those within reasonable distance.

...is exactly what they're doing.

A target figure of in-county qualifiers would then be agreed (likely to be based on the 2012-13 figure), following which an additional moderation exercise would be carried out. This process would involve looking at all SRP candidates in test score order starting with the 120s until the agreed number of in county qualifiers had been reached.

...is the dodgy bit surely:

Quotas would be illegal.

[ringo25]

The trouble is that the parents of 921 OoC children quite possibly were and, in turn, their children displaced many Bucks-resident children.

I'm probably missing something very simple here, in which case profuse apologies for being so slow, but I really don't see how this "displacement" works. These long-distance children are not included in the standardisation (according to the TBGS minutes), so they don't inflate the pass mark. The over subscription criteria (distance) presumably then do the rest? As you say, only 18 were allocated places (which otherwise would probably have been left unfilled?)? If your aim is to discourage these children/parents from sitting the test, then I'd have thought it would make more sense to point out that they will not displace more local children? After all, we don't want them to be ill-informed...

Sorry if I am a bit slow with all this, but having read through the thread I am still bit confused

My understanding is as follows:
The Bucks test is standardised based on children that are Bucks residents, which creates a qualifying score of 121

This means that roughly 30%? of Bucks children achieve this mark and can apply to the grammar schools

However many out of county children also take the 11+ so although they do not "inflate" the pass mark, it means that there are more children that qualify and are able to apply to grammar schools (although many of these are out of catchment)

Some out of county applicants actually live very close to a Bucks grammar school so may displace a Bucks resident from getting into that school

So to summarise, the children from out of county do not displace Buck kids by "raising the bar" but there may be some displacement due to the geography of county borders?

Am I correct?

Many Thanks!

[scary mum]

The results are standardised on the whole cohort. The problem with some out of county applicants is that they can often be highly tutored as they are aiming for super selective schools and may score very highly, and so push up the raw score required to qualify, without ever intending to apply to any of the Bucks schools, as they are using it as a free mock. Many of the Buckinghamshire residents will have had little or no tutoring since everyone sits the test unless they are withdrawn.

[ringo25]

The results are standardised on the whole cohort. The problem with some out of county applicants is that they can often be highly tutored as they are aiming for super selective schools and may score very highly, and so push up the raw score required to qualify, without ever intending to apply to any of the Bucks schools, as they are using it as a free mock. Many of the Buckinghamshire residents will have had little or no tutoring since everyone sits the test unless they are withdrawn.

Thank you scary mum for clarifying that. This is indeed a problem for Bucks kids. I read elsewhere that approximately 10-15% (?) of Bucks kids opt out. This alone would push up the raw score as assuming that if these kids sat the test it would bring the raw score down. This is compounded by the fact that approximately 4500 children opt in from out of county, and one can only assume that if their parents have opted them in, it is highly likely that many of these children are tutored, thereby increasing the raw score even higher.

It would be interesting to know exactly how much of a problem this is. Is there a statistic showing how many Buck children sit the test and the proportion that pass and the same with the number of Out of County? If the 4500 that take the test from out of county are a small proportion of the overall number that take the test the effect of pushing up the raw score may be minimal(although I agree that regardless of the amount it is still unfair).

[scary mum]

I think most of the figures you are looking for are somewhere within this thread. Look at Sally-Anne's list of December 5th, for example.
There are also facts & figures on the Bucks county council website

[ringo25]

One would guess that considering the majority of Bucks kids sit the rest (for Bucks) that a significant amount do the same thing and sit mock tests in other areas?