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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 5:06 pm 
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Location: london
TheHurdle wrote:
Sorry to be thick but for non super selective grammars how does out of catchment children affect the results?
121 is a pass no?
Surely its only super selective like kendrick where points could be raised?

The Bucks system is designed so that a standardised score of 121 provides the top 33% of passes, as the system is designed to take 33% of children to grammars and the rest to uppers. It is an opt out system so everyone in Bucks takes the exam unless their parents remove them. This way (so that plan goes) 1/3 go to a grammar the rest to uppers. As soon as out of county, children of aspirant parents and those choosing the test as a mock take the test the qualifying score (albeit always standardised to 121) is pushed up by definition in that that the test takers no longer reflect the whole ability spectrum. The lower ability children from elsewhere are not sitting test, so the distribution is skewed, and this in turn raises the raw score required to meet the standardised score of 121.
TheHurdle wrote:
As for moving, couldnt the same be said for those who have chosen to live in a grammar country> Just move if you dont like it?
Indeed,and a point well made.
TheHurdle wrote:
Or perhaps people cant move for many reasons or never expected to live where they ended up> it costs about 10 grand to move apparently, maybe people cant pull on that to move?
maybe people are careers to disabled relatives or need to live near vulnerable relatives etc or ended up where they live for push factors.
Again, a point well made.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 9:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:01 am
Posts: 91
TheHurdle wrote:
Sorry to be thick but for non super selective grammars how does out of catchment children affect the results?

121 is a pass no?

Surely its only super selective like kendrick where points could be raised?

As for moving, couldnt the same be said for those who have chosen to live in a grammar country> Just move if you dont like it?

Or perhaps people cant move for many reasons or never expected to live where they ended up> it costs about 10 grand to move apparently, maybe people cant pull on that to move?
maybe people are careers to disabled relatives or need to live near vulnerable relatives etc or ended up where they live for push factors.

I'm genuinely not understanding the pushing up of marks comment but generally I just cant judge people for their choices really because I dont know why they have chosen that path or made those choices.


well-said


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:01 am
Posts: 91
I'm wondering,

what's the difference for Bucks residents whether people are applying from OoC or moving in and renting out flats/houses a few yards away from grammar schools' door steps then eventually moving out?

The result is the same, local families, who lived in the area for many areas or bought properties 3-10 miles away from those schools, had to send their children somewhere else. I'm referring to catchment area for Dr Challoners high this year. It's just a ridiculous situation.

All parents are the same, all are prioritising the interests of their own children.

Probably, it's not worth discussing what happened 40 years ago, who's decided what. The time has changed, parents are looking for places in more academically strong environments for their children, top universities are accepting only those who managed to get A*-Bs in GCSEs and A levels, lots of parents are not happy with outstanding schools that can't show a decent % of A*-B grades separately on their website.
I'm personally scared to see the phrase "...75% of all our entries got A*-C grades in GCSEs". What happened with the rest 25%, a quarter of the whole year intake? :shock: Didn't they bother to show up for the lesson or open the book even once? :?: The possibility, that 1/4 of my child's class peers will not able to contribute in a lesson, not be interested in learning compulsory subjects, scares me to death.

There are lots of people, who are prepared to make a temporary move and even struggle in a small flat in order to get their children the best possible education. Some families are making 11+ exam preparation a 3-4 year project. Nothing surprising about that. The trend dramatically changed in the past 7 years. 7 years ago, parents were thinking if 1 year of preparation is too much, now I see, that lot's of people think that 2 years or maybe more would be a better solution and they are ready for this.

So, Bucks residents, you can't seriously hope that "donald trump's" kind of solution can solve the problem.

I believe that solution could be found in collaborative work of neighboring counties that can have to look at the bigger picture, accepting current trends in our society, instead of posting on the public/popular websites messages that are triggering hostility between hopeless, stressed parents.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 5:02 pm
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dreams wrote:
I'm personally scared to see the phrase "...75% of all our entries got A*-C grades in GCSEs". What happened with the rest 25%, a quarter of the whole year intake? :shock: Didn't they bother to show up for the lesson or open the book even once? :?: The possibility, that 1/4 of my child's class peers will not able to contribute in a lesson, not be interested in learning compulsory subjects, scares me to death.


What do you mean by this? Do you think that children who don't get a C at GCSE don't show up at school, or don't work, or don't contribute? That they are not interested in learning? That is a shocking attitude.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:59 pm
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I also feel minded to point out, dreams, that your comment about top universities only caring about As at GCSEs is slightly flawed.

Taking away from the fact that you obviously believe the guff that the only universities worth considering are Oxbridge or Russell Group (they aren't - both groups tend to be research heavy, so for Medicine for example Oxbridge whilst appearing at the top of many dubious league tables, in the actual medical world, with real doctors and consultants, is not seen as the "best" and the RG are a self selecting group based on how much research/how many publications they produce) - all universities are required to widen participation now - this usually means contextual offers to those from contextual schools - these are NOT Grammar Schools or Private Schools - and Birmingham University (as an example fo a "top" university under your criteria) quotes that actually 90% of state schools are contextual schools and can therefore benefit from a contextual offer - lower than a normal offer to allow that a child achieving that from a contextual school has done FAR better than someone coming from a GS/Private school.

One of the biggest issues in the education system today is (and many regulars will be surprised to note that I am not going on to say "the very existance of Grammar Schools themselves) the attitude of parents like yourself who completely ignore the many Outstanding schools in their area for a Grammar School or bust mentality.

A GS is just a school - the same curriculum, the same subjects, sometimes worse facilities, some good and bad teachers - but they select academically so it is hardly surprising that the vast majority get high grades. An Outstanding school has the same Ofsted rating as most Grammar Schools (yes, there are some that are rated worse by Ofsted - shock horror), yet takes every manner of child within their catchment area - and still gets a high number of brilliant grades and a much better value added Progress 8 score than the majority of GS. But why would you look at any of that? Because they aren't GS....


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:49 pm
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Yes KCG, I agree totally and you explained it better than I ever could.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:00 pm
Posts: 116
dreams wrote:

There are lots of people, who are prepared to make a temporary move and even struggle in a small flat in order to get their children the best possible education. Some families are making 11+ exam preparation a 3-4 year project. lot's of people think that 2 years or maybe more would be a better solution and they are ready for this.

So, Bucks residents, you can't seriously hope that "donald trump's" kind of solution can solve the problem.

I believe that solution could be found in collaborative work of neighboring counties that can have to look at the bigger picture.


So basically, you think parents who are prepared to "struggle" and make their children revise from the age of seven, are somehow more entitled to Grammar School places than local parents who don't go to these crazy lengths?

Far from being praiseworthy, I think such attitudes are entirely misguided. Do you really think that uprooting children, making them live in difficult conditions or travel miles and miles to school and pretty much stealing their childhood, is in their best interests?

What kind of young people are you going to end up with at the end of this process? Do their feelings come into it at all?

Universities - and, importantly, employers - do not look in such a blinkered way at candidates. "Soft" skills are extremely important. Things like the ability to communicate and relate to other people, as well as non-academic skills, are required. These skills usually develop during the course of a normal childhood, from play, friendships, time for relaxation and hobbies etc. Some degrees that were once very "academic" such as medicine, now use specific testing to assess these soft skills.

School days should be some of the best days of our children's lives. The most important thing is for them to be happy. Isn't it?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:52 pm
Posts: 21
Blimey Dreams you are coming across as extremely bitter that your child is unlikely to get a place in a Bucks grammar school. Why not move into the catchment of the school if you are convinced that school is the best fit for your child?


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