Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Eleven Plus (11+) in Buckinghamshire (Bucks)

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

SGadd
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:11 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by SGadd »

Rob Clark wrote:
I have a friend's son who failed the 11+ then went to a private secondary and then attended Dr Challoner's GS for sixth form.
I don't post here much these days as my children are both grown up, but as I live in the same area as you I thought I'd just mention – to add to your options – you could do private primary to 13, private secondary 13-16 then DCGS for sixth form, which would only entail paying 3 years of secondary schooling.

There certainly used to be a perception that the Beacon was geared more to sending its boys to private secondary schools at 13 than to GS at 11, but my experience is about 15 years out of date now, so I'm not sure if that is still the case. If you are seriously considering the Beacon, it might be worth asking some tough questions about destination schools for leavers.

As others have said there isn't much movement in Years 9 and 10 because GS places only come up rarely at those times, but there is tons of movement at sixth form. Into and out of GS, some go to Clement Danes in Chorleywood, others go to colleges… DD was at local secondary modern but got good enough GCSE grades to transfer to GS for sixth form (in the end she decided to stay where she was but the option was there).
Thank you so much for this. I asked Beacon whether their transfer test pass rate was only for 11+ or if it included private school entrance exams too, but they didn't clarify. They just advised me to focus on teaching quality, pastoral care and other opportunities. I am worried they tend to prep for private schools rather than GS as they have Year 7 and 8 students. These are their transfer tests pass rate:

2020 – 77%
2019 – 56%
2018 – 81%
2017 – 72%

The problem is we cannot afford to pay for private schools until sixth form. It is either private primary until Year 6 to GS or private secondary (starting when they are 13). We have two boys - 2 and a half years apart (they will be in private schools at the same time) and we will need to pay double private school fees for a number of years.

I am leaning towards starting at the Beacon from Year 2 and then seeing how they proceed. Clement Danes is an excellent school and we would have considered it, but we live too far. We were really impressed with the Beacon when we visited, but it is a huge private school - a lot of students. There are 20 children in a class in the Beacon and at the infant school my son is currently in, there are only 24 students for one teacher and one TA.

This is their destination page: https://www.beaconschool.co.uk/admissio ... n-schools/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In 2019 (pre Covid), 25 students out of their 75 students managed to secure a place at DCGS so 33.3%. It seems (from what I can work out), 36% in 2019 got into GS, but their transfer test pass rate is higher on their email to me. I am so confused...
scary mum
Posts: 8840
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by scary mum »

Some may sit the test but not bother to apply for a place. This is one of the problems with the test - highly tutored children from out of area, or those most likely to pass at private schools sit the test & have no intention of taking up a place, they use it as a mock or for the kudos of saying they have passed and push up the pass mark for those who genuinely want to attend the schools, are local & can't afford school fees.
If you can't get a straight answer out of them I would be wondering what else they are reluctant to tell you, to be honest.
scary mum
Rob Clark
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by Rob Clark »

The Beacon is a well-resourced, successful school, I'm sure most boys who attend it do well and there is always a large cohort from the Beacon at DCGS.

I agree with scary that I can't really see why they wouldn't give you a straight answer to a perfectly reasonable question.

The answer probably is that while they accept a lot of boys will leave at 11 to go to a GS, the school would rather they stay on to 13, so they choose not to highlight the fact. In my experience I wouldn't have thought Beacon boys were a particularly good match for Merchant Taylors, but that's purely a personal opinion.

We had one at GS and one at secondary modern – not convinced their school experiences were as different as some GS advocates would like you to believe, to be honest.
SGadd
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:11 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by SGadd »

scary mum wrote:Some may sit the test but not bother to apply for a place. This is one of the problems with the test - highly tutored children from out of area, or those most likely to pass at private schools sit the test & have no intention of taking up a place, they use it as a mock or for the kudos of saying they have passed and push up the pass mark for those who genuinely want to attend the schools, are local & can't afford school fees.
If you can't get a straight answer out of them I would be wondering what else they are reluctant to tell you, to be honest.
It may be because I keep going to them with millions of questions and they are probably getting fed up with me. Just want to ensure we are doing the right thing though.

How do students push up the pass mark? Isn't the pass mark 121 then it comes down to distance from the school? I know siblings take priority.
Rob Clark
Posts: 1298
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:59 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by Rob Clark »

It may be because I keep going to them with millions of questions
I shouldn't worry about that. One thing the Beacon will be very well accustomed to is demanding parents :lol: :lol:
scary mum
Posts: 8840
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by scary mum »

The pass mark is 121, but that is a standardised score, so that approximately 30% pass. Therefor the actual raw score needed will vary slightly each year, depending on sevarl things, one of which is how "bright" a particular cohort is, or how hard/difficult the tests are that year. If a lot of highly tutored children from out of the area (for example, those aiming for super-selective grammar schools) it will push up the raw score required to pass. Every year this results in local children not achieving the cut-off of 121, while children who never intended to go to the schools achieve high scores. It also costs the schools money to run the tests. (All of this partially answers your question on the DCHS thread).
scary mum
SGadd
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:11 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by SGadd »

scary mum wrote:The pass mark is 121, but that is a standardised score, so that approximately 30% pass. Therefor the actual raw score needed will vary slightly each year, depending on sevarl things, one of which is how "bright" a particular cohort is, or how hard/difficult the tests are that year. If a lot of highly tutored children from out of the area (for example, those aiming for super-selective grammar schools) it will push up the raw score required to pass. Every year this results in local children not achieving the cut-off of 121, while children who never intended to go to the schools achieve high scores. It also costs the schools money to run the tests. (All of this partially answers your question on the DCHS thread).
Oh wow, I did not think of that. That is awful to sit the test if you do not intend to attend a GS in the area.
hermanmunster
Posts: 12815
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: The Seaside

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by hermanmunster »

SGadd wrote:
scary mum wrote:The pass mark is 121, but that is a standardised score, so that approximately 30% pass. Therefor the actual raw score needed will vary slightly each year, depending on sevarl things, one of which is how "bright" a particular cohort is, or how hard/difficult the tests are that year. If a lot of highly tutored children from out of the area (for example, those aiming for super-selective grammar schools) it will push up the raw score required to pass. Every year this results in local children not achieving the cut-off of 121, while children who never intended to go to the schools achieve high scores. It also costs the schools money to run the tests. (All of this partially answers your question on the DCHS thread).
Oh wow, I did not think of that. That is awful to sit the test if you do not intend to attend a GS in the area.
happens a lot unfortunately - children get taken to do what is effectively a "free mock" and it can really mess up the allocations for in area children

re the transfer test pass rate - the 77% may be the number who passed as a percentage of those who took it, whereas the 33% may be the percentage of the whole year group. DD's year there were 3 who took the exam and all 3 passed, so pass rate of 100% - there were also 15 who didn't take the exam so pass rate of 16%
SGadd
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2021 12:11 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by SGadd »

Rob Clark wrote:The Beacon is a well-resourced, successful school, I'm sure most boys who attend it do well and there is always a large cohort from the Beacon at DCGS.

I agree with scary that I can't really see why they wouldn't give you a straight answer to a perfectly reasonable question.

The answer probably is that while they accept a lot of boys will leave at 11 to go to a GS, the school would rather they stay on to 13, so they choose not to highlight the fact. In my experience I wouldn't have thought Beacon boys were a particularly good match for Merchant Taylors, but that's purely a personal opinion.

We had one at GS and one at secondary modern – not convinced their school experiences were as different as some GS advocates would like you to believe, to be honest.
The Beacon is a great school but the fees are very expensive. Ideally we wanted Berkhamsted School (their day fees are £1,000 cheaper per term), but they don't allow their boys to get their school bus home until Year 5 whereas the Beacon allows 'sensible' Year 2 students to use their bus. Also not sure Berkhamsted prepares for 11+ as they have their own secondary school.

I do agree there isn't a lot of difference between the teaching quality of GS and non-selective secondary schools. I am a teacher in a secondary school in London. I do think some non selective schools are amazing and they all teach in-depth knowledge make sure students progress. However, the difference comes from peers and their influence. One would like to think that students at GS are more academic and your child makes good support friendships. I feel it is easier to fall into the wrong group with non-selective. Not that I doubt my parenting but teenage years are challenging.

Well, we have decided on the Beacon now - fingers crossed for the 11+.
scary mum
Posts: 8840
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Re: Dr Challoners' Grammar School

Post by scary mum »

If you look here you can see how many children sat the Bucks exams by area (pre reviews & appeals). A total of 1614 from Bucks achieved a score of 121 (out of 7395 who sat the test from Bucks, including private schools).
From elsewhere over 1000 achieved the qualifying score, but very few of them would be eleigible for a place (some from around the edges of Bucks, such as Hertfordshire, Slough (part of which is in catchment for Burnahm Grammar), berkshire, Hillingdon etc. If these, as a group, are higher scoring then the raw score pass mark will be pushed up, potentially excluding Bucks pupils who might otherwise have qualified.

Quite a few people try to move into Bucks after the deadline to bump themselves up the waiting list, but there is little movement on the waiting lists so I suspect many are disappointed.

ETA: here are the allocations by area for March 2021

Good luck with the Beacon school :)
scary mum
Post Reply