why is there no info avaliable on school 11 plus results

[bucksdaddy]

Whilst I don't really want to start an old debate, the stats really do reveal the pitfalls of the 11+ test.

The Bucks CC Primary Schools stats (with one assumption that <5 = 2.5 which will probably marginally overstate the number scoring > 121) show that the overall percentage of Bucks CC educated children achieving 121 is around 23% compared with:

Indep partner schools (Aylesbury Vale) - 48%
Indep partner schools (Chiltern/South Bucks) - 64%
Indep partner schools (Wycombe) - 61%
Out county partner schools - 38%
Out county schools - 42%

or 44% in total across these categories.

A child is almost twice as likely to pass from one the categories above than a Bucks Primary school.

In fact if my stats are correct about 900 Out Country Children qualified compared to approx 1,100 Bucks CC educated children with approx. 250 from independent schools.

I would suggest that your average Bucks CC educated primary child wishing to attend a grammar school is at a significant disadvantage particularly if they have no access to coaching.

[crecheout]

Many thanks Dad40, looks like a lot of work!
Well done for getting this out so quickly, I, and I suspect many others, will be fascinated to read this, I know past performance is not a guarantee of future expectations but it is a very useful tool, especially when you see the number of successful appeals.

[burnzeazi]

Ah the joy of stats! Another factor which distorts the figures and the conclusions reached is the number of Bucks residents whose DC are at an OOC school (as mine is). We didnt want to change schools when we moved from Herts to Bucks.

[Tree]

V interesting bucksdaddy i'm interested in whether there is a denominator error is the denominator for all the groups equivalent are you using the number on roll for application and does this incluude all children at independent school or only those applying for state schools ??

[Sally-Anne]

Whilst I don't really want to start an old debate, the stats really do reveal the pitfalls of the 11+ test.

The Bucks CC Primary Schools stats (with one assumption that <5 = 2.5 which will probably marginally overstate the number scoring > 121) show that the overall percentage of Bucks CC educated children achieving 121 is around 23% compared with:

Indep partner schools (Aylesbury Vale) - 48%
Indep partner schools (Chiltern/South Bucks) - 64%
Indep partner schools (Wycombe) - 61%
Out county partner schools - 38%
Out county schools - 42%

or 44% in total across these categories.

A child is almost twice as likely to pass from one the categories above than a Bucks Primary school.

In fact if my stats are correct about 900 Out Country Children qualified compared to approx 1,100 Bucks CC educated children with approx. 250 from independent schools.

I would suggest that your average Bucks CC educated primary child wishing to attend a grammar school is at a significant disadvantage particularly if they have no access to coaching.

There is one extremely significant factor hidden in these statistics, which is that Bucks state school children have to "opt out" of the 11+. Many Bucks state school children will take the 11+ simply because they don't want to be the odd one out.

All the other categories are "opt in", and are therefore a pre-selected group. The qualification rate is bound to be substantially higher among them, and that probably accounts for a very large part of the difference.

Where the real debate lies is in the variance in the qualification rate within Bucks state schools across the county, with Aylesbury Vale having a qualification rate that is virtually half that of Chiltern & South Bucks.

[muvvalac]

Whilst I don't really want to start an old debate, the stats really do reveal the pitfalls of the 11+ test.

The Bucks CC Primary Schools stats (with one assumption that <5 = 2.5 which will probably marginally overstate the number scoring > 121) show that the overall percentage of Bucks CC educated children achieving 121 is around 23% compared with:

Indep partner schools (Aylesbury Vale) - 48%
Indep partner schools (Chiltern/South Bucks) - 64%
Indep partner schools (Wycombe) - 61%
Out county partner schools - 38%
Out county schools - 42%

or 44% in total across these categories.

A child is almost twice as likely to pass from one the categories above than a Bucks Primary school.

In fact if my stats are correct about 900 Out Country Children qualified compared to approx 1,100 Bucks CC educated children with approx. 250 from independent schools.

I would suggest that your average Bucks CC educated primary child wishing to attend a grammar school is at a significant disadvantage particularly if they have no access to coaching.

There is one extremely significant factor hidden in these statistics, which is that Bucks state school children have to "opt out" of the 11+. Many Bucks state school children will take the 11+ simply because they don't want to be the odd one out.

All the other categories are "opt in", and are therefore a pre-selected group. The qualification rate is bound to be substantially higher among them, and that probably accounts for a very large part of the difference.

Where the real debate lies is in the variance in the qualification rate within Bucks state schools across the county, with Aylesbury Vale having a qualification rate that is virtually half that of Chiltern & South Bucks.

Valid point

[Tree]

The other thing is that in my ds' primary last year there were 2 or 3 children who didn't take the 11 plus because they wen't to private schools but probably had a good chance of passing it and of the children not taking it (around 24 or 70%) at least some would probably have passed but they were happy with the local out of county comp which is the catchment school so the percentage passing did not truly reflect the number who would have passed if they had all taken it

And sally anne this fact may explain your AV and south bucks difference as alot of the pupils in the long crendon area (long crendon,brill and some haddenham ) will prob go for lord williams and not take the 11plus but may well have passed and maybe the same is for the tring (bucks side of) and wendover waddeson areas where the other state school options are pretty good i'm not sure how much of this factore is availabe in soth bucks

[bucksdaddy]

The first two columns are:
2. Number of pupils registered to take 11+ test
3. Number of pupils withdrawn from 11+ test

The OOC and Independents all have a reasonable number of students under category 3, so are these children who opted in initially and subsequently opted out or are they those that never opted in?

[Sally-Anne]

The first two columns are:
2. Number of pupils registered to take 11+ test
3. Number of pupils withdrawn from 11+ test

The OOC and Independents all have a reasonable number of students under category 3, so are these children who opted in initially and subsequently opted out or are they those that never opted in?

They are children who registered, but didn't actually take the test, and the figures effectively read backwards for the non-Bucks state schools to give an artificial "cohort". To give an example, the OoC non-Partner Schools figures are:

Pupils registered to take 11+ test = 1661
Pupils withdrawn from 11+ test = 372
Pupils on roll for application process (Year 6) = 2033

This category is effectively "all others" and can include children from literally anywhere in the world taking the Bucks test. (There are usually a few children living abroad who take the test in advance of moving back to the UK.) Therefore the figure of 2033 is not the total cohort, because that would be the sum of all Year 6 kids world-wide! So, 2033 children were actually registered to take the test, and 1661 took it. 372 were withdrawn before taking the test.

The same applies to Bucks and OoC partner schools. Admissions have no way of knowing what the total numbers on roll are at those schools, and Heads are not requested to supply that information. Admissions therefore only know the number of pupils who have actively applied to take the test.

The figures for Bucks state schools do actually represent the total cohort, i.e. all pupils at the school, divided into those who take the test and those who don't, because the parents have to sign a form to say that they wish to withdraw their child from testing, therefore Admissions have the full picture.

The numbers pulling out after registering may seem high at 372/1661, but the application forms come out in the summer term, and by September parents may decide to focus on tests for other schools, e.g. in Berkshire, or may have just decided that the 11+ isn't right for their child. They just wanted to keep their options open.

I think that is borne out by the figures for independent schools in CSB, where the tutoring industry is most intense. The percentage of kids "withdrawn from testing" (i.e. registered, but didn't take the test in the end) at private schools there was far lower, at 22/311. If you've spent £2,000 on tutoring, you are darn well going to make your child goes through with the test!

[Tree]

Ok so bucksdaddys statement :

A child is almost twice as likely to pass from one the categories above than a Bucks Primary school.

is not valid because we are not comparing like for like for the ooc and independent schools the denominator is children who have opted to take the test and for the in county schools the denominator is all children enrolled at the school, have i read this right sally anne/bucksdaddy?