Not taking it seriously
Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators
Not taking it seriously
11+ take 2.
DS2 is due to sit his 11+ this October. His teachers say he is bright and talk about him going to GS with his brother currently in Y8. The problem is DS2 thinks it is a foregone conclusion that he will make the grade and any attempt by me to get him to have a look at a paper is dismissed out of hand. DS1 was happy(ish) to look through papers from about this stage of Y5 and passed comfortably.
Yes, he is GS material (both boys are very similar academically so I can make a direct comparison and know with some certainty that what suits one will suit the other) but with so much tutoring going on I fear that the pass mark will be artificially raised and he (along with other genuinely bright children) could miss out.
He knows some of his friends are being tutored and I've asked how he would feel if they got to GS and he didn't - he replies "they won't pass, they're thick if they need tutoring". To a degree I can see his point of view (although I wouldn't have phrased it quite so bluntly), the children are in lower sets at school and are perhaps borderline GS material at best, but with up to 12 months tutoring they could well get a high enough mark.
We have taken him to the alternative schools so he knows what the options are if he doesn't get a GS but to no effect. He is so completely confident that he will pass. I just wish I was. In a fair contest I would share his confidence but it's not a fair contest. I don't imagine appeals panels put very much weight on "my child wasn't tutored" as there is no way of proving it.
How can I encourage him to just have a look so he isn't too disadvantaged by my refusal to jump on the tutoring bandwagon?
It was supposed to be easier second time round
DS2 is due to sit his 11+ this October. His teachers say he is bright and talk about him going to GS with his brother currently in Y8. The problem is DS2 thinks it is a foregone conclusion that he will make the grade and any attempt by me to get him to have a look at a paper is dismissed out of hand. DS1 was happy(ish) to look through papers from about this stage of Y5 and passed comfortably.
Yes, he is GS material (both boys are very similar academically so I can make a direct comparison and know with some certainty that what suits one will suit the other) but with so much tutoring going on I fear that the pass mark will be artificially raised and he (along with other genuinely bright children) could miss out.
He knows some of his friends are being tutored and I've asked how he would feel if they got to GS and he didn't - he replies "they won't pass, they're thick if they need tutoring". To a degree I can see his point of view (although I wouldn't have phrased it quite so bluntly), the children are in lower sets at school and are perhaps borderline GS material at best, but with up to 12 months tutoring they could well get a high enough mark.
We have taken him to the alternative schools so he knows what the options are if he doesn't get a GS but to no effect. He is so completely confident that he will pass. I just wish I was. In a fair contest I would share his confidence but it's not a fair contest. I don't imagine appeals panels put very much weight on "my child wasn't tutored" as there is no way of proving it.
How can I encourage him to just have a look so he isn't too disadvantaged by my refusal to jump on the tutoring bandwagon?
It was supposed to be easier second time round
-
Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Re: Not taking it seriously
Hi andy
I heard of a child who felt like this - pretty bright but also assuming that because of that, the 11+ would be a walk in the park. She got her wake-up call when she scored appallingly badly in the first (easier) familiarisation paper. There was a terrible panic all round and the child spent the next 2 weeks doing nothing but 11+ prep.
He may well be naturally able at VR - there are children who really don't need any tutoring at all to get through, but there are also plenty of bright children whose strengths don't lie in VR, as is demonstrated by those who have CATs scores of 141/141 for QR & NVR, but scores in the low 120s for VR.
I think you need to say to him: "Here is a GL Assessment paper which is very close to the standard of the real test. You have 50 minutes to prove to me that you can get 72 marks out of 80. If you can, we won't discuss it any further."
Edited to add: And you may need to bribe him to do it.
If he does get 72+, then both of you can probably stop worrying about it!
S-A
I heard of a child who felt like this - pretty bright but also assuming that because of that, the 11+ would be a walk in the park. She got her wake-up call when she scored appallingly badly in the first (easier) familiarisation paper. There was a terrible panic all round and the child spent the next 2 weeks doing nothing but 11+ prep.
He may well be naturally able at VR - there are children who really don't need any tutoring at all to get through, but there are also plenty of bright children whose strengths don't lie in VR, as is demonstrated by those who have CATs scores of 141/141 for QR & NVR, but scores in the low 120s for VR.
I think you need to say to him: "Here is a GL Assessment paper which is very close to the standard of the real test. You have 50 minutes to prove to me that you can get 72 marks out of 80. If you can, we won't discuss it any further."
Edited to add: And you may need to bribe him to do it.
If he does get 72+, then both of you can probably stop worrying about it!
S-A
Re: Not taking it seriously
I'm really interested in this post - I too have a bright child sitting the 11plus in October. His two siblings are at GS and he assumes that is where he is heading...
He is doing some practice, though, and I'm glad to say he does not appear to feel any stress about it, but I do worry he may get a bit of a wake up call if and when he realises it's not a foregone conculsion. Good luck andyb and I will watch with interest. A good idea to get him to do a paper. DC1 (fairly bright and at GS now) did a bit of practice but not a great deal and when he did his first full paper (end of June) he only completed about half of it - not because he couldn't do the questions but because he had no idea how quickly he had to do them. Practice of full papers was what was needed for him rather than learning the techniques.
He is doing some practice, though, and I'm glad to say he does not appear to feel any stress about it, but I do worry he may get a bit of a wake up call if and when he realises it's not a foregone conculsion. Good luck andyb and I will watch with interest. A good idea to get him to do a paper. DC1 (fairly bright and at GS now) did a bit of practice but not a great deal and when he did his first full paper (end of June) he only completed about half of it - not because he couldn't do the questions but because he had no idea how quickly he had to do them. Practice of full papers was what was needed for him rather than learning the techniques.
scary mum
Re: Not taking it seriously
Thanks for the replies.
Do they do the first practice before they break up (I dismissed all things 11+ from my mind 3 years ago!)? If so we still have the summer holidays to put some effort in.
I don't think he will have any problem answering the questions but he displays a distinct lack of urgency about most things so I think timing could be our biggest issue, oh and getting him to sit still for 50 minutes
.
Do they do the first practice before they break up (I dismissed all things 11+ from my mind 3 years ago!)? If so we still have the summer holidays to put some effort in.
I don't think he will have any problem answering the questions but he displays a distinct lack of urgency about most things so I think timing could be our biggest issue, oh and getting him to sit still for 50 minutes
.Re: Not taking it seriously
"familiarisation" before the summer hols I think and then the 3 practice papers in September.
scary mum
Re: Not taking it seriously
Oooh that's cutting it a bit fine for my likingscary mum wrote:"familiarisation" before the summer hols I think and then the 3 practice papers in September.
. I better get some good incentives organised, and quick .Re: Not taking it seriously
Andy,
bribery worked with my children!
... but make sure it's something you would want to buy him anyway
bribery worked with my children!
... but make sure it's something you would want to buy him anyway
Re: Not taking it seriously
Andy
Why don't you buy a pack of VR papers - the hardest you can find and give your DS one of the papers to try under exam conditions, i.e. within the time given and no looking stuff up. I'm sure someone on here can tell you which ones are most like the Bucks papers.
If he doesn't want to do it tell him it is to set your mind at ease so that you know he will be OK with all the different types of question. If you feel happy with the idea you could promise him that if he gets over a certain mark you won't mention it again. If he doesn't do as well as he expects to it may shock him into putting a bit of effort in. Very bright children often make silly mistakes so it is worth doing a bit of practice just to avoid those kind of errors.
Why don't you buy a pack of VR papers - the hardest you can find and give your DS one of the papers to try under exam conditions, i.e. within the time given and no looking stuff up. I'm sure someone on here can tell you which ones are most like the Bucks papers.
If he doesn't want to do it tell him it is to set your mind at ease so that you know he will be OK with all the different types of question. If you feel happy with the idea you could promise him that if he gets over a certain mark you won't mention it again. If he doesn't do as well as he expects to it may shock him into putting a bit of effort in. Very bright children often make silly mistakes so it is worth doing a bit of practice just to avoid those kind of errors.
Re: Not taking it seriously
There is a company which runs mock tests in Bucks through the summer - I have no idea of cost but you could send him to one of these. If you can't find the company by googling pm me and I'll send you a link. I have no idea if the mock tests are any good although I have used some if the papers they produce and they seemed quite hard.
scary mum
Re: Not taking it seriously
Sally-Anne, we took your advice. He did a test untimed and got very nearly full marks. He then had a go at a timed test (not in the same day!) and didn't finish, although what he did do was mostly correct. So at least we now know where we stand. To get the timing issue sorted we have compromised on doing the 15 minute tests until he can get both the timing and the accuracy and only then go to full length tests. Whether he will stick to his side of the bargain is a different matter and I may well have to offer "incentives"Sally-Anne wrote:I think you need to say to him: "Here is a GL Assessment paper which is very close to the standard of the real test. You have 50 minutes to prove to me that you can get 72 marks out of 80. If you can, we won't discuss it any further."
S-A
.