'11+ crackdown on rich kids' article

[Sally-Anne]

This reminds me of something ??

oh yes this

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/forum/ ... 12&t=13293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

time to re open this whole debate ?????

When it's already 11 pages long? And it's the 20th of December?

Tree, take pity - I want to get some presents wrapped and some food in the house!

Just think Christmas, Tree. (Sorry couldn't resist!)

[Fran17]

[leanmeamum]

All this c**** about tutoring is just a spin to get some news mileage - why does it even exist????? Because there is limited number of GOOD schools & everyone wants the best for their children!!!

Would the easiest solution in the whole world be to just make all the schools GOOD quality so everyone is working off the same sheet!!! Increase the standards in existing schools & you immediately cut out competition. Just plain rules of SUPPLY & DEMAND should be applied - increase the supply & cut out the need for fighting & tutoring & everyone gets the same standard of teaching.

Schools stream kids now & that can still carry on within the quality schools with chances for kids to move up & down the streams.................I think just increase the number of GOOD SCHOOLS & there is no need for arguing about class, wealth, etc!!!!!!

[Tree]

Just think Christmas, Tree. (Sorry couldn't resist!)

you must have been saving this up LOL

[Tree]

Would the easiest solution in the whole world be to just make all the schools GOOD quality so everyone is working off the same sheet!!! Increase the standards in existing schools & you immediately cut out competition. Just plain rules of SUPPLY & DEMAND should be applied - increase the supply & cut out the need for fighting & tutoring & everyone gets the same standard of teaching.

Schools stream kids now & that can still carry on within the quality schools with chances for kids to move up & down the streams.................I think just increase the number of GOOD SCHOOLS & there is no need for arguing about class, wealth, etc!!!!!!

This is the original comprehensive idea and my feeling and personal experience is that an "outstanding" comprehensive provides the best education and if all the grammar school kids in the country were at comps then the comps would be better, but the problem with this comes down to one thing ; selection by catchment with people moving house to get to a good school.

come on sally anne put the sellotape down and come to the party

[Sally-Anne]

come on sally anne put the sellotape down and come to the party

There speaks a man at Christmas-time ...

[Sally-Anne]

Just think Christmas, Tree. (Sorry couldn't resist!)

you must have been saving this up LOL

Not at all, Tree (Christmas, pine or oak ).

I am a sort of lastminute.dot.com, Amazon first class panic sort of Christmas shopper.

The word "Appeals" comes to mind?

[bikeman]

Lets all be honest:

- The grammer school system retains it's popularity for a select few by providing a public school level education without the associated fees.

- All secondary schools in selective counties underperform wrt the majority of comprehensives in non-selective county's (measured by % attainment of 5 GCEs incl maths & english).

- The demand for grammer schools continues to be distorted by the fear of sending our children to underperforming secondary schools and is seen as the only option to attain a decent education in selective counties.

- Tutoring is now so rife that the 11+ now penalises those who cannot afford tutoring.

Middle incomes can make a small investment in tutoring/prep school and reap the benefit from a superior education at zero cost. Thus the system is self perpetuating by the middle incomes who, whilst holding positions of influence within the county, continue to benefit from it.

Grammer schools were originally setup to provide opportunties for children of the less well off not to be exploited by the middle incomes to avoid private school fees.

The exploiting of the grammer school system was recognised 38 years ago and the education act tried to reverse this by forcing local authorities to offer comprehensives schools. I don't know how bucks and a few other counties managed to retain their grammers but the system favours the 20% and badly lets down the 80%.

That we would select children for a sub-standard education based upon a single test at age 10/11 is just appalling.

Its about time the 80% in selective counties stood up and demanded a decent education for their children. I for one would favour Bucks moving to the comprehensive school system.

[andyb]

Lets all be honest:

- All secondary schools in selective counties underperform wrt the majority of comprehensives in non-selective county's (measured by % attainment of 5 GCEs incl maths & english).

Really? How many comprehensive schools in non-selective counties get 95%+ children achieving 5 A*-C's? ALL the Bucks grammar schools do and they were still secondary schools the last time I checked.

I think the pupils, teachers and parents of the very highly regarded and high achieving Upper schools in Bucks would be extremely offended by your statement. 2009/10 5 A*-C GCSE inc Maths and English - Holmer Green 61%, Waddesdon 72%, St Bernards Catholic 64% (to name just 3 Upper schools in Bucks) compare favourably with comprehensives in neighbouring Windsor and Maidenhead - Altwood 58%, Cox Green 57%, Furze Platt 68%. Source: The Guardian. This is despite approximately 30% of the "brightest" children in the county going to the grammar schools. Overall, a higher proportion of Bucks children achieve the benchmark 5 A*-C GCSE inc Maths and English than in non-selective counties. If anything, the grammar school/upper school system raises achievement for all children.

[bikeman]

Lets all be honest:

- All secondary schools in selective counties underperform wrt the majority of comprehensives in non-selective county's (measured by % attainment of 5 GCEs incl maths & english).

Really? How many comprehensive schools in non-selective counties get 95%+ children achieving 5 A*-C's? ALL the Bucks grammar schools do and they were still secondary schools the last time I checked.

A bit of selective reading here - I never said comprehensives were comparable to grammers, I just highlighted that the majority of non-grammer secondary schools in Bucks underperform against neighbouring counties comprehensives.

Comprehensive 5+ GCE incl Maths & Eng = Ave 74%
Bucks Secondary 5+ GCE incl Maths & Eng = Ave 29%
Bucks Grammers 5+ GCE incl Maths & Eng = 98%

The issue I highlight is that the resources get disproportionately allocated to grammers at the expense of the counties secondary schools. And by resources I mean everything from funding to good teachers preference for working in the grammers.

The grammer school system benefits the few at the expense of the many and is at complete odds with it's original purpose.

Yes many (but not all) of those associated with the county's secondary schools do a sterling job against the odds BUT the fact is that Bucks secondary schools perform badly within a fundamentally unfair system which needs changing.

My DS got 120 - statistically that 1 point at the tender age of 10 condemns her to a sub-standard education - our only school in catchment has a pass mark of only 19% (5 GCE). Yes I am bitter.