Y4 Verbal Reasoning

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 4:55 pm

We have only recently moved into Bucks but my son's teacher has told us that in June he will sit a mock 11+ which is suitable for Year 4 and it will give us an idea whether he is suitable material to pass the exam in Year 6.

He/we are unfamiliar with this type of test so can I buy VR practice tests for Year 4?

Any information and help will be much appreciated.

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:30 pm

This test will not have any 'official status' - I've never heard of schools in Bucks doing this.

Have you looked at the 'number of pupils' thread lower down in this section - you can see how many from your child's school reached qualifying in 2006.

I would try the demo from this site but do the questions with your child - you will then get an idea how easy they find it.

It would be a good idea to register then you can PM the 'old-timers' for help!

Sally-Anne · Post by **Sally-Anne** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:27 pm

Hi Guest

I think that the teacher is being highly misleading, describing this as a "Mock 11+". Private schools certainly do verbal reasoning & non-verbal reasoning tests in Years 3, 4 and 5, and I suspect that many state schools do them as well. They are one way to identify any discrepancy between the child's natural ability and their current level of achievement.

I don't recommend tutoring your child for the school test. See how he/she does without preparation and use the result as one way to judge your child's suitability to take the 11+. However, don't panic if the score is low and don't be over-confident if the score is high.

If you want to see for yourself how your child does on Verbal Reasoning questions, buy the Bond Assessment Papers - Second Papers in Verbal Reasoning for age 8-9 years from this site. As they will probably be below your son's current age, he should find them reasonably easy. Get him to complete the books as he would a puzzle book - no pressure, no timing.

(I must emphasise that the Bond books are NOT comparable to the NFER test used in Bucks. Bond are the only papers that are produced for different age levels - any of the materials that are correct for Bucks would be too intimidating at this stage.)

Sally-Anne

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:38 pm

Thank you for the above. I won't worry too much about this particular test. It seems like there is plenty more to worry about in the next couple of years and it seems a good idea to register.

Post by **patricia** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:10 am

Dear Guest

Many Schools, in year 4 and 5 use Verbal Reasoning tests [ not the CATs ] published by NFER. They are vaguely similar to the real thing, but are in standard form and do not contain the full compliment of 21 types.

Teachers use the results to 'discuss' future performance in the 11 plus.

As already mentioned I wouldn't start any coaching for these, they do have a familiarisation session. You will get feedback on them.

Starting any form of coaching for the 11 plus any earlier than January of year 5 will result in overkill. As Sally-Anne has mentioned Bond are OK for getting used to quizzy type questions BUT must NOT be used to prepare for the actual 11 plus.

Patricia

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:06 am

Our school uses both CATS (VR/NVR/Quantitative) and optional SATS in and 5 and just optional SATS in years 3 and 4. They do not give feedback to the parents (who do not know that tests are happening unless their child comes home and tells them) unless they go to the head to ask for the results. The school use these tests to monitor child progress as the CATS allow for predictions to be made for the KS2 SATS. All this testing has only been introduced by the reletively new headteacher to allow teaching staff to put extra support in where necessary. His argument for not telling kids/parents in advance that the tests will be happening is to reduce stress either internally generated by the child or externally generated by the parent.

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:29 am

Last guest - I can understand not telling pupils in advance but I think it's scandalous not to tell parents the results of the optional NC tests! How can they support their child if they are 'kept in the dark' like this?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:52 am

They do tell parents but ONLY if parents go in and ask. Its fine if your child tells you they have done the tests but if they don't you would forever be in the dark. I agree with what you say about support but and I guess with VR/NVR you would only give support if you were looking at grammars. We are a non 11+ region with only one or two children a year in our school (which does very well in the league tables) making it to one of the few grammars in North London. Obviously the optional SATS is another ball game and I'm afraid many teachers in our primary school have a 'teachers know best and parents need to be spoken to in a condescending manner' attitude which drives me up the wall. I think parents should formally be given the optional results as soon as they are available allowing them to put home support in where necessary. Luckily this year (5) for the first time we have an excellent teacher who knows we are going down the selective route and who constantly give me feedback. I guess this year I am just lucky. Is this just our school or have others encountered the same problem?

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:05 pm

You need to know the levels - that was how I discovered my child was not progressing in writing but was in top 10% nationally in everything else - hence I was able to have as assessment done and found child had specific needs in literacy.

If the school does optional tests they should be reported - perhaps this is something to bring up - just as your child leaves if you prefer!! I am always sad when I hear that there are still teachers that want to keep parents in the dark ...