New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Eleven Plus (11+) in Buckinghamshire (Bucks)

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Demon Pixie
Posts: 48
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:06 pm

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Demon Pixie »

The current tests cost around £500,000 pa, so presumably something along those lines will now have to be shared by the 13 grammar schools.
Do we know for definite that the cost of administering the 11+ will only be shouldered by the grammar schools? As it is a test that determines which type of secondary school is most suitable for a child (albeit far from a perfect test), do the Upper Schools that are academies, and BCC on behalf of non-academies, not also have to finance this process?
Sally-Anne
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Sally-Anne »

slough mum wrote:If its not out of the way and a good school, then why do they have spaces in most year groups?
Chesham Grammar rarely has spaces beyond Years 7 & 8. It is in quite a rural area, and right on the edge of the County, so awareness of the school fades as you get in to Hertfordshire and Greater London. Transport links from the north and east are very poor, so parents have to drive their children to school; it is in quite close proximity to the two single gender Challoners schools in Amersham (which is the reason that Sir Henry Floyd in Aylesbury often has spaces in Year 7 as well) and to the Watford grammars to the east. Etc, etc.

I cannot believe that any of the grammars will specify a lower or higher qualifying mark in their Admissions policies. They have been united in wanting to retain a common testing system, and I feel sure that extends to qualifying marks as well. The new banding system at Highcrest was greeted with absolute horror and outrage by GS & US Heads alike.
pippi
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:33 am
Location: Bucks

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by pippi »

Demon Pixie wrote:
Do we know for definite that the cost of administering the 11+ will only be shouldered by the grammar schools? As it is a test that determines which type of secondary school is most suitable for a child (albeit far from a perfect test), do the Upper Schools that are academies, and BCC on behalf of non-academies, not also have to finance this process?
I think the council has to pass on the full cost to the grammar schools. Their line (which they used in the transport consultation) is that upper schools are suitable for children of all abilities.
Lillie
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Lillie »

pippi wrote:
Demon Pixie wrote:
Do we know for definite that the cost of administering the 11+ will only be shouldered by the grammar schools? As it is a test that determines which type of secondary school is most suitable for a child (albeit far from a perfect test), do the Upper Schools that are academies, and BCC on behalf of non-academies, not also have to finance this process?
I think the council has to pass on the full cost to the grammar schools. Their line (which they used in the transport consultation) is that upper schools are suitable for children of all abilities.
Agreed. There are no academic barriers to entry at most schools across the UK. The selection procedures are for the benefit of the grammar schools themselves, therefore why should the upper schools be forced to share the costs of a selection procedure which is irrelevant to them?
kittymum
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:42 pm

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by kittymum »

Regarding Borlase being over subscribed that's only really down to all the out of catchment applications it gets so is really no different from a popular primary. Borlase is my catchment grammar - we live in one of the Bucks villages outside Marlow, so towards the edge of its catchment and everyone who wants to get in does.

I think it's also important to have some perspective wrt grammar schools - if Borlase is your catchment school then Great Marlow also is. Great Marlow is an amazing school so either option is equally good but different. I know many children who are at Borlase who were heavily tutored and are not exactly thriving and who would probably be happier and more successful at Great Marlow. Grammar School is not the "be all and end all"!
Okanagan
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Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:20 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Okanagan »

Sally-Anne wrote:I cannot believe that any of the grammars will specify a lower or higher qualifying mark in their Admissions policies. They have been united in wanting to retain a common testing system, and I feel sure that extends to qualifying marks as well.
It happens elsewhere - consortiums for the purpose of setting and administering tests, but then each setting its own qualifying score - which fluctuates according to the actual scores achieved, not a predefined figure. Longer term it's probably an inevitable consequence of the schools effectively competing with each other for students. It's in their interests to fill all their places, so if that means adjusting the scores required, that's what they'll do.
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Sally-Anne »

Of course it happens elsewhere, but my point is that there is no apparent interest in adopting such a system in Bucks. The schools have been "competing" against each other for pupils for decades, and yet we still have a single qualifying mark.
Tree
Posts: 536
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:19 pm
Location: bucks

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Tree »

Of course it happens elsewhere, but my point is that there is no apparent interest in adopting such a system in Bucks. The schools have been "competing" against each other for pupils for decades, and yet we still have a single qualifying mark.
was this their choice or was it imposed on them by BCC ? i wonder if now that they have more freedom I can see that they may wish to return to having 11+ score as one of their admission deciders as it was before, superselectives here we come.
Sally-Anne
Posts: 9235
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
Location: Buckinghamshire

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Sally-Anne »

Tree wrote:was this their choice or was it imposed on them by BCC ?
My understanding is that it has always been by collective mutual agreement.
i wonder if now that they have more freedom I can see that they may wish to return to having 11+ score as one of their admission deciders as it was before, superselectives here we come.
I recall that Dr Mark Fenton, who chairs the working group, has gone on record to say that he would be opposed to any change that might make Bucks grammar schools less accessible for local children. Selection by score would fly in the face of that.

As I have said (several times now!), the GS Heads are clearly striving to work in complete unison on the changes, and I cannot foresee any of them breaking ranks on score. I also imagine that the Heads at SHF and CGS would be very miffed at the suggestion that they might want to lower the pass mark in order to fill seats!
Lillie
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: New 11 Plus Procedures Public Consultation

Post by Lillie »

I wonder if the January deadline for the consultation process is realistic now? It has taken them 6 months so far since the initial announcement and no definite view of the way forward yet. How much will they achieve in the next few weeks (and of course December is leaving it pretty late for decisions to be taken).
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