Great Marlow School

Eleven Plus (11+) in Buckinghamshire (Bucks)

Moderators: Section Moderators, Forum Moderators

11 Plus Platform - Online Practice Makes Perfect - Try Now
Booklady
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:39 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Booklady »

Lillie wrote: And yet, these schools are described by the county as "all ability" schools!

Yes, they should exactly be that and do have children of all abilities, and yet the children are so let down by the limited choice of subjects. I don't know why Ofsted does not pick up on this issue.
Yes that is a puzzle!! Any Ofsted people on here who could shed some light? .........
southbucks3
Posts: 3579
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:59 am

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by southbucks3 »

The uppers simply cannot diversify any more than they do, they are relatively small schools traditionally designed to accommodate the needs of children who academically fall in the lower 65% in the county catchment area. As that has now changed to between 75% and 80% they are trying to accommodate children in the top 25-20% (academically speaking on a national level) as well as those who struggle with normal academic subjects but shine at vocational subjects.
Our local uppers offer btec fashion and design, construction, early years child care, health and beauty as well as a much broader range of vocational gcse subjects than my sons grammar school. We may turn our noses up at such subjects, but for children who are looking for careers in those areas it acts as a great foundation and confidence builder, rather than forcing them to study subjects they struggle with, you could equally criticise the grammars for not offering "business studies" as you criticise uppers for not offering German or Latin.
Essentially the current situation is forcing the uppers to turn into mini comprehensive schools without the capacity funding to fulfil the criteria. Also historically there was more movement year on year between uppers and grammars, if you were doing really well you had a good chance of moving up to grammar by taking 12+ 13+ filling the places freed up by children who were not performing well at grammar and were transferred down to upper. I have adult friends who moved both ways and were completely accepting, if not always happy, with the situation. Currently the grammar schools have absolutely zero ability to transfer children to uppers, they instead have to support them as best they can as they flounder and stress, fulfilling their parents wishes rather than the child's needs. This is another reason why the grammars wanted a tougher, less tutorable, test but they never considered lowering their result expectations, just elevating the academic calibre of intake pupils.
We should be asking why we anticipate ALL children who go to grammar schools in Bucks two tier system must try and gain 10 a or a* gcse. Look at the national figures, do the top 35% of all children achieve these grades? Why are some of our gs pushing the boundaries so high, several of my eldest sons friends have tutors in a variety of subjects just so they can keep up with the desires of the school and their parents, not just in languages either but a whole range of subjects, on top of their homework......such fun for them!
Why can't we accept that children in grammar schools in Bucks should not have to achieve top 10% gcse results nationally, but top 35%, once this was accepted then the pass mark could be lowered to open up places to a more genuine top 35% of children in the area, not of sitting cohort and a greater fluidity between uppers and grammars in year 8/9/10 should be enforced.
Perhaps simply re-naming bucks grammars and uppers to "first stream and
second stream" would detract those in search of the glory of a gramnar education from sitting the bucks test and reign in over zealous bucks school administrators?
ConfusedAylesburyMum
Posts: 128
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:42 am

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by ConfusedAylesburyMum »

For info, my daughter was at an Upper in Year 7 prior to moving after passing 12+. Her Upper offered French, German and Spanish which is more than she has at her grammar school.
Dollydripmat
Posts: 332
Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:19 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Dollydripmat »

SBB3 a great post, it's exactly how I view the whole system. My worry is pushing the children so much to gain such exceptional GCSE grades, it's not good for their mental health. Dollyxxxx
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Guest55 »

Not all the GS are so focused on A*s - you'd be surprised how different each one is.
Lillie
Posts: 231
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:34 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Lillie »

southbucks3 wrote:Our local uppers offer btec fashion and design, construction, early years child care, health and beauty as well as a much broader range of vocational gcse subjects than my sons grammar school. We may turn our noses up at such subjects, but for children who are looking for careers in those areas it acts as a great foundation and confidence builder, rather than forcing them to study subjects they struggle with, you could equally criticise the grammars for not offering "business studies" as you criticise uppers for not offering German or Latin.
That's the point: the whole system is based on grammar vs. "secondary modern" - a term I thought was confined to the dustbin of history, but alas is still prevalent here.

Some of these uppers are not that small and some are larger than average so I don't know how the funding works out.

It's important these schools (and comps as well) offer the vocational courses. Of course, that is the right route for many children and of course it's not right to push unacademic children towards traditional academic subjects. However, I do have a problem with a secondary school only offering French. It's like the science dept. only offering biology or chemistry and missing out on physics. There are more and more academic children at these schools and I'm concerned that those more academic children are not being stretched or their options are limited. And if some of the uppers can offer two or more MFLs, then I don't see why the others can't.
Jules7
Posts: 248
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:55 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Jules7 »

Rob Clark wrote:Just to expand on kitty mum's post, we aren't a bunch of Nimbys in Bucks :lol: – there have always been children from just over the county borders in Berkshire and Hertfordshire attending Bucks GSs and because of the shape of the county in a number of cases these might well be their nearest school. No one has any objection to that. Nor do they have any objection to people who fully intend to move into the area should their DC pass; all are welcome, it's a nice part of the world :D

It's children who are taking the Bucks 11+ as a practice who might live miles away and whose parents have no intention of sending them to school in Bucks which is the problem. This artificially raises the standard and leads to children who could quite easily cope at GS missing out on that opportunity.

Though of course it does mean that many of the Upper Schools are improving and are now offering the full range of academic GCSEs…
Completely agree with this. I don't even object to children wanting to take the exam as practice if their parents really feel the need (?!), it's just that they are then included into the standardisation which results in the situation we now have. Perhaps a different approach needs to be taken such that a weighted raw score is used as a selection for those actually applying to a Bucks GS? Or something like that...
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Guest55 »

If they want practice they could just sit the familiarisation test ....
scary mum
Posts: 8841
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:45 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by scary mum »

But G55, then we wouldn't have the pleasure of explaining how difficult it would be for them to get to the school they have never been to see, and they wouldn't have the pleasure of knowing their offspring had passed the exams for umpteen grammar schools. Don't be silly :D :lol:
scary mum
Booklady
Posts: 522
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:39 pm

Re: Great Marlow School

Post by Booklady »

scary mum wrote:But G55, then we wouldn't have the pleasure of explaining how difficult it would be for them to get to the school they have never been to see, and they wouldn't have the pleasure of knowing their offspring had passed the exams for umpteen grammar schools. Don't be silly :D :lol:

That makes me giggle and cross (as I face appeals for my DD who should have got a place) in equal measure!!! :roll: :lol: :roll: :lol:
Post Reply
11 Plus Mocks - Practise the real exam experience - Book Now