Worried ! I’m only starting
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Bryan
I think people have covered most of what I would say. On the Bucks grammar question you can research which schools offered out of area places, and to what distance. A summary of this year's allocation was posted on the Forum - go to GENERAL TOPICS, "Today's the Day" Page 3, post half way down by Mel.
That should give you a rough idea of how much chance you have of a Bucks GS place from Berkshire. (Some brighter mind than mine will probably know where to find the same information on the Bucks CC website, which will also show Upper Schools.)
And no, I don't think you're crazy to start thinking about it now. All the Year 3 kids know about the 11+ and talk about schools a great deal. It will all come round sooner than you think, I'm afraid.
Look out for open evenings in September at schools that interest you - there's nothing to stop you going along, even if your daughter is still very young. It will help you to start weighing up the options, although schools can change enormously in a few years.
Good luck!
Sally-Anne
I think people have covered most of what I would say. On the Bucks grammar question you can research which schools offered out of area places, and to what distance. A summary of this year's allocation was posted on the Forum - go to GENERAL TOPICS, "Today's the Day" Page 3, post half way down by Mel.
That should give you a rough idea of how much chance you have of a Bucks GS place from Berkshire. (Some brighter mind than mine will probably know where to find the same information on the Bucks CC website, which will also show Upper Schools.)
And no, I don't think you're crazy to start thinking about it now. All the Year 3 kids know about the 11+ and talk about schools a great deal. It will all come round sooner than you think, I'm afraid.
Look out for open evenings in September at schools that interest you - there's nothing to stop you going along, even if your daughter is still very young. It will help you to start weighing up the options, although schools can change enormously in a few years.
Good luck!
Sally-Anne
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Mel
I can always remember when we went for an interview at our daughter's school when she was 4, the headmistress told us "we aim to give your girls a good all round education, we do not teach them to pass the 11+!!!"
I never forgot that.
And that school did not give 11+ tuition either!!!
This year 95% of the girls got through!!!! Admittedly from private tutoring outside of the school, but nevertheless a good pass mark!!!
Bryan - are you on the border of Bucks/Berks?
As for Kendrick taking the children with the highest marks, that has now been stopped in Bucks, so you get a place depending on catchment, not on marks. You just have to pass!!
Mel
I never forgot that.
And that school did not give 11+ tuition either!!!
This year 95% of the girls got through!!!! Admittedly from private tutoring outside of the school, but nevertheless a good pass mark!!!
Bryan - are you on the border of Bucks/Berks?
As for Kendrick taking the children with the highest marks, that has now been stopped in Bucks, so you get a place depending on catchment, not on marks. You just have to pass!!
Mel
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Guest
Hi, once again, many thanks to those who have taken time to reply.
Of-course, as a father the answer is obvious as to whether I believe my daughter to be bright or not, but when compared to her peers at Nursery or within the NCT group then she's certainly streets ahead of most. But then its early days but either way this doesn't dampen my enthusiasm for a Grammar school education.
I did look at the really helpful link on BCC Grammar school allocations (2006) and assuming that 2006 wasn't an exceptional year in terms of numbers of exam entrants, the figures just reconfirm my belief that without living in a BCC catchment area then irrespective of results, the chances of a Buckinghamshire grammar placement is slim at best.
As for the ongoing education changes, aka The Education Bill, and without getting political, if Labour haven't completely abolished selection during the past 10 years of government, and the current Education bill certainly doesn't, and the fact that the Conservatives will probably be in power within the next 2 terms, then if I was putting money on it, then I would be very confident that no selection abolishment will happen within the next 7, 10, 15 years. To do so is just too much of a middle-class vote loser.
So I think that, as a result of the really helpful comments, I’ve come full circle and gone someway in answering my original questions.
/ Is it normal to consider moving into a catchment area and facing all the financial consequences as a result..
The answer seems to be yes..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... e_continue
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 70,00.html
/Is a good way of preparing a child for the BCC test is to actually live and attend a BCC primary and also seek private tutoring in-county?
Again, the answer I think is yes..
/ Finally, it is normal to worry so early when my daughter is only 4.
Well, the jury is out on this one, but some other parents do so I guess its normal.
So all in all, given the BCC is the 5th best performing LEA in the country(2006), and given that I’m very keen to have my daughters educated in a good performing Grammar school, and given that BCC LEA are unlikely to allocated places to someone who lives in the heart of West Berkshire, and finally, given that BCC Grammars are closer to Reading than the Slough Grammar’s.. Then I think my options are clear.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4626172.stm
The only next question is, which is a good catchment area to move to ! Marlow, High Wycombe, North Maidenhead !!
Once again, many thanks for your comments, guidance and help... It’s been emotional !
Bryan.
Of-course, as a father the answer is obvious as to whether I believe my daughter to be bright or not, but when compared to her peers at Nursery or within the NCT group then she's certainly streets ahead of most. But then its early days but either way this doesn't dampen my enthusiasm for a Grammar school education.
I did look at the really helpful link on BCC Grammar school allocations (2006) and assuming that 2006 wasn't an exceptional year in terms of numbers of exam entrants, the figures just reconfirm my belief that without living in a BCC catchment area then irrespective of results, the chances of a Buckinghamshire grammar placement is slim at best.
As for the ongoing education changes, aka The Education Bill, and without getting political, if Labour haven't completely abolished selection during the past 10 years of government, and the current Education bill certainly doesn't, and the fact that the Conservatives will probably be in power within the next 2 terms, then if I was putting money on it, then I would be very confident that no selection abolishment will happen within the next 7, 10, 15 years. To do so is just too much of a middle-class vote loser.
So I think that, as a result of the really helpful comments, I’ve come full circle and gone someway in answering my original questions.
/ Is it normal to consider moving into a catchment area and facing all the financial consequences as a result..
The answer seems to be yes..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story ... e_continue
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/ ... 70,00.html
/Is a good way of preparing a child for the BCC test is to actually live and attend a BCC primary and also seek private tutoring in-county?
Again, the answer I think is yes..
/ Finally, it is normal to worry so early when my daughter is only 4.
Well, the jury is out on this one, but some other parents do so I guess its normal.
So all in all, given the BCC is the 5th best performing LEA in the country(2006), and given that I’m very keen to have my daughters educated in a good performing Grammar school, and given that BCC LEA are unlikely to allocated places to someone who lives in the heart of West Berkshire, and finally, given that BCC Grammars are closer to Reading than the Slough Grammar’s.. Then I think my options are clear.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4626172.stm
The only next question is, which is a good catchment area to move to ! Marlow, High Wycombe, North Maidenhead !!
Once again, many thanks for your comments, guidance and help... It’s been emotional !
Bryan.
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Bryan
Glad this has all helped you out. Re your point on this year's school offers, no this year was not a high birth rate year - it was considerably lower than last year, and the LEA predictions for the next 3 years are broadly the same as this year, so the offers "net" won't get any bigger in the foreseeable future.
Do please bear in mind that even bright children can fail the 11+ (I am the owner/keeper of just such a child), so even moving into area is no guarantee of a GS place.
As Catherine said, do look at the decent upper schools. Looking again at the allocations for this year, the Upper Schools that appeared to be most oversubscribed in your neck of the woods were Highcrest, Holmer Green and Mandeville. I'm basing that on the fact that they weren't able to offer places even to all catchment area children. The two church schools (St Bernard's Catholic and Waddesdon Cof E) were also popular.
I have finally found the allocations document on the Bucks CC website, so you can study it at your leisure. If my link doesn't work (probably won't!) then go to Bucks CC education, school admissions, and look for allocation profile.
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get//asse ... ofiles.pdf
Sally Anne
Glad this has all helped you out. Re your point on this year's school offers, no this year was not a high birth rate year - it was considerably lower than last year, and the LEA predictions for the next 3 years are broadly the same as this year, so the offers "net" won't get any bigger in the foreseeable future.
Do please bear in mind that even bright children can fail the 11+ (I am the owner/keeper of just such a child), so even moving into area is no guarantee of a GS place.
As Catherine said, do look at the decent upper schools. Looking again at the allocations for this year, the Upper Schools that appeared to be most oversubscribed in your neck of the woods were Highcrest, Holmer Green and Mandeville. I'm basing that on the fact that they weren't able to offer places even to all catchment area children. The two church schools (St Bernard's Catholic and Waddesdon Cof E) were also popular.
I have finally found the allocations document on the Bucks CC website, so you can study it at your leisure. If my link doesn't work (probably won't!) then go to Bucks CC education, school admissions, and look for allocation profile.
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get//asse ... ofiles.pdf
Sally Anne
Hi Bryan,
Thank you for the links. They are interesting.
If you look at the documents from Sally-Anne's link, you will notice that children who live on the edge of some catchments do not get a place in their local grammar. They get a place somewhere in the LEA.
Something else to bear in mind.
Best of luck
Catherine
Thank you for the links. They are interesting.
If you look at the documents from Sally-Anne's link, you will notice that children who live on the edge of some catchments do not get a place in their local grammar. They get a place somewhere in the LEA.
Something else to bear in mind.
Best of luck
Catherine
Hi Bryan,
Note your comment that your daughter seems streets ahead of her peers. Ask your Nursery if they have done a baseline assessment. I think they mark out of 49. A score of 24/25 is average. It is a measure of social skills, communication skills, attention control as well as aptitude for art, play skills etc. I guess it is designed to pick out those children who might need extra support.
Over to Berkshire parents, does your LA do baseline assessments, Hertfordshire certainly do when children start Nursery.
Just to give you some idea of what baseline assessments can indicate, my son scored 11
, he has severe SEN (which we already knew about before he started Nursery), my eldest scored 44 
, and is seriously bright (and yes she did pass the entrance exam for her selective school this year ), so the baseline assessment can give some idea of your child's inherent ability. Just be aware of the shortcoming of any school assessments, my youngest scored 24/25 so her school were happy with her score, but she actually has moderate dyslexia and is pretty bright too. We had to undertake an independent Educational Psychology assessment (you can find an EP on www.bps.org.uk ) to prove that she was significantly underachieving.
Not suggesting that you rush out and do this, a two/ three hour assessment is daunting for any child, is pretty costly c£ 400 -500 and may only tell you what you already know. Just wanted to make you aware that if you want more information about your child than your school can/will provide that there are other avenues for assessment. (We went down this route because our daughter's behaviour was a really good pointer, our previously happy child suddendly turned moody and tearful in Reception when faced with reading).
It sounds as though you are already thinking about taking the plunge and moving house. Well done for the forward planning, do make sure you follow Sally-Anne's very good advice - visit the schools in the area you are looking at before you move as well as those in your area.
Good Luck
HP
Note your comment that your daughter seems streets ahead of her peers. Ask your Nursery if they have done a baseline assessment. I think they mark out of 49. A score of 24/25 is average. It is a measure of social skills, communication skills, attention control as well as aptitude for art, play skills etc. I guess it is designed to pick out those children who might need extra support.
Over to Berkshire parents, does your LA do baseline assessments, Hertfordshire certainly do when children start Nursery.
Just to give you some idea of what baseline assessments can indicate, my son scored 11
, he has severe SEN (which we already knew about before he started Nursery), my eldest scored 44 , and is seriously bright (and yes she did pass the entrance exam for her selective school this year ), so the baseline assessment can give some idea of your child's inherent ability. Just be aware of the shortcoming of any school assessments, my youngest scored 24/25 so her school were happy with her score, but she actually has moderate dyslexia and is pretty bright too. We had to undertake an independent Educational Psychology assessment (you can find an EP on www.bps.org.uk ) to prove that she was significantly underachieving. Not suggesting that you rush out and do this, a two/ three hour assessment is daunting for any child, is pretty costly c£ 400 -500 and may only tell you what you already know. Just wanted to make you aware that if you want more information about your child than your school can/will provide that there are other avenues for assessment. (We went down this route because our daughter's behaviour was a really good pointer, our previously happy child suddendly turned moody and tearful in Reception when faced with reading).
It sounds as though you are already thinking about taking the plunge and moving house. Well done for the forward planning, do make sure you follow Sally-Anne's very good advice - visit the schools in the area you are looking at before you move as well as those in your area.
Good Luck
HP
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Some good points from HP. 
Regarding an Ed Psych assessment, the rule of thumb is that, unless the child has very obvious learning difficulties/special needs such as dyslexia or dyspraxia, and probably a family history of the same, an Ed Psych assessment should be left until the age of 7 at the earliest.
Also bear in mind that should you find yourself needing to appeal on a near miss at the 11+, any test results you presented to an appeal panel would probably have to be fairly recent - no more than 1-2 years old, which means going through the cost and time of the exercise all over again!
I personally feel that if a child is obviously performing at a generally "above-average" level compared to their peer group, there is not a lot of point in doing an Ed Psych assessment. (I know of too many parents who have put their perfectly normal child through one for their own "peace of mind". That invariably turns out to be an ego trip for the parents and a stick to beat the school with.)
If (and it is obviously a big IF for you still), you are coming up to the 11+, your child is clearly and unquestionably suited for GS in the opinion of both you and the school, BUT is struggling with the Verbal Reasoning required for the Bucks 11+, then I would hotfoot it to an Ed Psych without question. Some children just can't do VR!
Sally-Anne
Regarding an Ed Psych assessment, the rule of thumb is that, unless the child has very obvious learning difficulties/special needs such as dyslexia or dyspraxia, and probably a family history of the same, an Ed Psych assessment should be left until the age of 7 at the earliest.
Also bear in mind that should you find yourself needing to appeal on a near miss at the 11+, any test results you presented to an appeal panel would probably have to be fairly recent - no more than 1-2 years old, which means going through the cost and time of the exercise all over again!
I personally feel that if a child is obviously performing at a generally "above-average" level compared to their peer group, there is not a lot of point in doing an Ed Psych assessment. (I know of too many parents who have put their perfectly normal child through one for their own "peace of mind". That invariably turns out to be an ego trip for the parents and a stick to beat the school with.)
If (and it is obviously a big IF for you still), you are coming up to the 11+, your child is clearly and unquestionably suited for GS in the opinion of both you and the school, BUT is struggling with the Verbal Reasoning required for the Bucks 11+, then I would hotfoot it to an Ed Psych without question. Some children just can't do VR!
Sally-Anne
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Tearing Hair Out Mum
11+ Results Link and Tutor Help
Hi Catherine,
I was intrigued to see the link to Brian regarding the 11+ Bucks results from the schools. Do you have anything similar for Berks.
I have just hear from the Tutor with whom I have had my sons name down since nursery, yes nursery that she will not be able to tutor him for the 11+ Next November 2007. I am desperately looking for a new one to one 11+ tutor in Slough. If you or Patricia can recommend anyone or any courses I would be most grateful. My daughter went through the 11+ two year ago, whilst I was heavily pregnant, and I must admit that I left most of the work up to the tutor who was the one my son was due to have had. She was very very experienced and my daughter scored 141 in bucks and 130 in berks. Her nfer scores at the end of year 5 refected similar results.
My son has scored 116 Maths, 111 verbal and 120 non verabal in recent year 4 nfer tests. I have kept all my daughters work, thankfully. But do not feel confident (or clever) enough to do it all myself. I would be grateful for any advice that you or Patricia can offer me. We are in Slough as I mentioned above and we do the Bucks and Berks exam, thankfully as it means we get two chances of getting a grammar school place.
I look forward to hearing from you
I was intrigued to see the link to Brian regarding the 11+ Bucks results from the schools. Do you have anything similar for Berks.
I have just hear from the Tutor with whom I have had my sons name down since nursery, yes nursery that she will not be able to tutor him for the 11+ Next November 2007. I am desperately looking for a new one to one 11+ tutor in Slough. If you or Patricia can recommend anyone or any courses I would be most grateful. My daughter went through the 11+ two year ago, whilst I was heavily pregnant, and I must admit that I left most of the work up to the tutor who was the one my son was due to have had. She was very very experienced and my daughter scored 141 in bucks and 130 in berks. Her nfer scores at the end of year 5 refected similar results.
My son has scored 116 Maths, 111 verbal and 120 non verabal in recent year 4 nfer tests. I have kept all my daughters work, thankfully. But do not feel confident (or clever) enough to do it all myself. I would be grateful for any advice that you or Patricia can offer me. We are in Slough as I mentioned above and we do the Bucks and Berks exam, thankfully as it means we get two chances of getting a grammar school place.
I look forward to hearing from you
Hi Tearing Hair Out Mum,
Unfortunately, I don't have the 11+ results for Berks. I asked Slough Borough Council under the freedom of information act but they replied that they don't have the results, the schools have them. I haven't pursued this further.
As regards to tutors, my experience hasn't been very positive. My son went to a tutor group I was disapointed with, and two of his friends who had one-to-one tuition were not too pleased either.
AE tuition is a well known tutor group in Slough that you may have heard off. I only have is second hand information about it: heavy workload for both children and parents (parents are asked to get involved). It paid off for the children I know - 3 of them.
This site gives the contact details of a few tutors in Slough with some advice about how to find a good tutor.
Sorry I can't be more precise. May be you could repeat your post in the Berkshire section.
If you have any more question please ask, I'll be happy to help if I can.
Catherine
Unfortunately, I don't have the 11+ results for Berks. I asked Slough Borough Council under the freedom of information act but they replied that they don't have the results, the schools have them. I haven't pursued this further.
As regards to tutors, my experience hasn't been very positive. My son went to a tutor group I was disapointed with, and two of his friends who had one-to-one tuition were not too pleased either.
AE tuition is a well known tutor group in Slough that you may have heard off. I only have is second hand information about it: heavy workload for both children and parents (parents are asked to get involved). It paid off for the children I know - 3 of them.
This site gives the contact details of a few tutors in Slough with some advice about how to find a good tutor.
Sorry I can't be more precise. May be you could repeat your post in the Berkshire section.
If you have any more question please ask, I'll be happy to help if I can.
Catherine
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Tearing Hair Out Mum
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:01 am
- Location: Slough, Berks
Thanks for the response Catherine,
I wonder could you e-mail me the name of the tutor group and tutors if you have them, as I do not want to make the same mistake. I have his name down at time tutors, but again do not know a lot about them. Who did you use in the end?
I have found, I think a lady in Richings Park but do not have a lot of information on her. Two of my sons year are currently having extra maths tuition and I am waiting to find out how they are getting on.
I have heard how pressuriesed AE is and that fact that parents are supposed to mark homework and that they employ class helpers i.e. grammar school children to help children in the class. But sometimes you have no choice and his results speak for themselves. I personally do not want to freak my son out.
I have posted this in Berks.
Many thanks
I wonder could you e-mail me the name of the tutor group and tutors if you have them, as I do not want to make the same mistake. I have his name down at time tutors, but again do not know a lot about them. Who did you use in the end?
I have found, I think a lady in Richings Park but do not have a lot of information on her. Two of my sons year are currently having extra maths tuition and I am waiting to find out how they are getting on.
I have heard how pressuriesed AE is and that fact that parents are supposed to mark homework and that they employ class helpers i.e. grammar school children to help children in the class. But sometimes you have no choice and his results speak for themselves. I personally do not want to freak my son out.
I have posted this in Berks.
Many thanks
Tearing Hair Out Mum
