DS not doing well in 11+ prep

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BlueBerry
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:05 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by BlueBerry »

My DS is not doing so well either, so please don't feel that you are alone in going through this. I have thought many times over the past month of throwing the towel in as it's getting very stressful for my DS & I. I'm getting stressed at the sheer volume of work that we have to cover - we are doing the DIY route. So, DS & I had a chat earlier in the week where I was very honest with him about his chances of getting into a grammar school. I told him that it's best to try hard and not succeed then to not try at all and fail. I also said that it's completely is choice as to what he what he wants to do. That we can stop the 11+ process and he will just go to an equally good secondary school. So interestingly after our chat he's now telling me that he's prepared to work hard and to put the time in. I think that he got seduced by the sporting facilities of the schools he's visited as this is all he talk about!

So for the past 2 days we have been doing the 'easy' Bonds 9-10 for him to gain some confidence and I'm hoping to start doing the 10-11 Bond in a few weeks time. His biggest issue is the timing. So I'm still timing him (only for my own reference) and he's doing his best to work methodically and as quick as he can.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, hang in there & don't give up just yet.
Aethel
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by Aethel »

Hope things seem a little better for everyone....
.... all we can do is our best, and that includes supporting our DC as best we can. They know that the testing process is daft, and that we love them all and will support them through their schooling irrespective of the outcomes.
Daogroupie
Posts: 11099
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Herts

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by Daogroupie »

I don't think it is a great idea to tell ten year olds who are working hard to pass the tests that the tests are "daft"

Great to encourage them and support them but I don't see the need to attack the system.

I don't think that is very motivating for them. For their parents to tell them they don't believe in what they are working for. DG
Aethel
Posts: 1190
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:24 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by Aethel »

Let me clarify dao (it's all in the wording).

I don't sit in front of the DC and tell them their hard work is not worthwhile.

On the contrary: I praise their efforts frequently, remind them that the effort they put in will help them in "normal" school work and encourage every bit of progress.

But the system of one-off-achievement-on-one-day is flawed, and doesn't reflect the spectrum of children's ability, personality, or "fit" for a particular school.
We all see folk on here and at the school gates who obsess about the tests, cancel their childrens' hobbies for 11 plus prep, spend the entire summer holiday cramming, bribe their children with material benefits for "passing" (or worse, emotionally blackmail them or remove priveleges for "failing"). Our local non-selective school staff mentioned their dislike of the testing process because they then have to build up the self esteem of eleven year olds who have been told they are "not good enough".

I think personally (of course you may disagre) that what is most important is that my DC should feel they are valued for who they are, and how they grow and flourish.

So I tell them that I see the 11 plus test as a means to increase their choices, but not a true test of ability, merely a rough screening tool. If they understand the system is not perfect, and can be (and is) artificially "gamed" by folk who over-tutor , then they can hopefully be protected from the awful negativity if they are deemed "not elegible" by the test.

So the test itself isn't "worthless" or "fripperous" in that meaning of daft, but it is "not enturely sensible". Does that make sense?
Daogroupie
Posts: 11099
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: Herts

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by Daogroupie »

But it is the same for GCSEs, A levels, interviews for university, finals, driving tests, interviews for jobs, jockey in the Grand National and other races, athletics etc.

It is all about what happens on the day and for the others mentioned above there is not even a backup day if you are feeling ill on the day.

Our society operates on performing on the day.

11 plus tests your ability to follow instructions and the exam format under timed conditions.

This is a required skill for academic success in our society and is certainly not a one off requirement for entry into selective schools at 11.

As you say what they have learnt will serve them well at secondary school and in any exams at primary school. DG
Guest55
Posts: 16254
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by Guest55 »

DG - you are so wrong - ever other test you mention has been designed by experts in the field. They are all moderated and the process in clear.

The 11+ is not designed by 'experts' - there is no analysis of the results against prior attainment [like GCSEs and other school exams] - it has been shown to get it wrong so many times.

You can retake many tests ...
drummer
Posts: 529
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:47 pm
Location: South Bucks

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by drummer »

But they are daft. Or whatever word you would like to choose that encapsulates just how imperfect these tests are at selecting which children would be best suited for grammar school.
kenyancowgirl
Posts: 6738
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by kenyancowgirl »

Daogroupie wrote:
11 plus tests your ability to follow instructions and the exam format under timed conditions.
....which in itself shows how flawed the system is...it's supposed to identify high academic ability, not ability to follow instructions (tame monkey anyone?) and the exam format (prep school fodder) and timed conditions (getting the riff raff ready for clock watching jobs maybe?!)

As you were....
MrsB
Posts: 174
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by MrsB »

Daogroupie wrote:But it is the same for GCSEs, A levels, interviews for university, finals, driving tests, interviews for jobs, jockey in the Grand National and other races, athletics etc.

It is all about what happens on the day and for the others mentioned above there is not even a backup day if you are feeling ill on the day.

Our society operates on performing on the day.

11 plus tests your ability to follow instructions and the exam format under timed conditions.

This is a required skill for academic success in our society and is certainly not a one off requirement for entry into selective schools at 11.

As you say what they have learnt will serve them well at secondary school and in any exams at primary school. DG
Society does not really operate on "performing on the day". The driving test can be taken multiple times, and GCSEs, A Levels are based on performance in more than exam, and if the worst comes to the worst, can also be retaken. What is more they are taken when much older and hopefully therefore more mature and better able to cope with a knock.
greengekho
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:43 pm

Re: DS not doing well in 11+ prep

Post by greengekho »

I have also gone for a frank honest approach along the lines of, "Yeah, the system is a bit crazy...but it is what it is...so we're just gonna have to do our best (we are DIY'ing) to work within that." I don't see the point in pretending that the system is anything other than a bit crazy - it is - and I would prefer my son to know that I have been honest and realistic about that than place an expectation on him to do well at something that we all know (I think) is asking rather a lot of them. I don't think it makes the child blase about attempting the work or gives them a disrespectful attitude towards the assessment if you position it in the right way.

I think it is important to be honest with the child so that if they don't do so well they don't beat themselves up about it...that they are able to see that they are still bright/able...it's just that the way the test is designed didn't allow them to show their best side.

We have done the DIY journey together - I haven't completely dictated what he learns, how fast he learns, how many hours he does etc. - I have tried to let my son have some say in how we work it. It soon became apparent that despite being very much at the 'upper end' of his school class, there are huge gaps that need to be covered...and unless we were prepared to do an hour a night like a lot of folks (we're not!), it's unlikely that we will cover all the material in time. So he knows he is bright...but he knows that if he doesn't pass it wasn't necessarily because he wasn't clever enough.

He is motivated as he wants to go to a particular grammar school (RGS)...but he has said himself that he knows it's not the end of the world if he doesn't go to a grammar. I didn't go to grammar school despite growing up in a grammar school region, but I still got a post grad from Cambridge, so this gives him some perspective which is useful. He can see that life doesn't fall apart if you don't go to grammar school and that some people bloom later in their education.
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