legal basis for having to opt out?

[josephine123]

I do not want my child to take the 11+ as I feel most grammars in my area have a poor record of pastoral care. The Bucks CC leaflet says all state primary children are automatically entered for the 11+ unless parents opt out. in principle I do not see why a child is automatically entered.

I'm trying to find out the legal basis on which Bucks can enter a child without the parent's express permission. Admissions do not have a number as they presumably don't want to talk to the public they serve. I managed to get through to the legal advisor to Education in Bucks who was alarmed that I had been given his number (by a colleague) as he said he does not deal with the public and could not give me legal advice. I said I was not asking for advice and referred to the leaflet which he knew nothing about. He then said he was ending the call as could not say anything.

All very weird! Does anyone know the legal basis on which this automatic entry is based? Yes, I know I can opt out but this is a principled objection.

thanks in anticipation

Josephine

[mad?]

Hi josephine123, I'm afraid I can't answer your question but it might be better posted in the Bucks section of the forum as most places are not opt out and I know there are some experts in the Bucks forum who could probably help you. God luck.

I have moved the thread to Bucks - Moderator

[Guest55]

Every parent is informed of how to opt out in the meeting and by letters home. Just write and note or send an e-mail and your child won't have to do the test. The Transfer Test is part of the transition process to Secondary school.

Btw, you have to sit tests to go to Highcrest whether you do the Transfer Test or not.

It's a bit like RE or s*x education - if you don't want your child to partake you write a note.

[Sally-Anne]

I don't think there's a legal basis for it either way. Bucks has been a fully selective county since grammar schools were established in the 1940s, after which all children around the country took the 11+, and the system has simply remained that way ever since. There might be something in the original 1944 Education Act about it, or in the 1976 Education Act that abolished the tripartite system.

Administratively, though, it would be a complete nightmare if more than 5,000 parents were required to opt-in each year. We see just about every possible variant of parental incompetence on this forum, and that would be multiplied hundreds of times if the system was opt-in.

[Guest55]

By the way OP, I'm not sure where you are in Bucks but some of the GS do have excellent pastoral care.

Do you have a nearby comp as some of the Uppers aren't great.

[anotherdad]

Perhaps the view is that by accepting a place at a Bucks primary school, you implicitly agree to partake in the Bucks selection system unless you opt out. I don't think it's any more than that. I don't think you'll discover a "legal reason" because there probably isn't one, it's just become accepted practice.

Is there a benefit to your child sitting the test as exam practice? The more exposure to exam conditions, perhaps the more comfortable s/he will be when other exams come along.

[josephine123]

Hi - thanks for the responses, interesting if it is just accepted practice and non one questions it. I will check out the Bucks forum, hadn't realised there was a separate one. Re: exam practice. Its not about that. I think children should be allowed to be children and seen as individuals. Some parents in this area assume their child must go to a Grammar regardless of whether they are academically or emotionally suited to it. I know of quite a few children with mental health issues, partic at Grammars for many reasons but some are just being pushed too hard by parents who maybe confuse their children's achievements for their own.

The world does not end if a child does not go to a Grammar school - I'd rather my child was secure and happy.

Many thanks

[Sally-Anne]

interesting if it is just accepted practice and non one questions it.

I think it is just as anotherdad says: if you accept a place at a Bucks primary school, or live in the county, you have accepted the system around you.

I will check out the Bucks forum, hadn't realised there was a separate one.

You are already there. I teleported you over here a few hours ago.

The world does not end if a child does not go to a Grammar school - I'd rather my child was secure and happy.

I agree wholeheartedly, but please do check how happy you would be with the alternative Upper School. As G55 rightly says, some of them are not great, and pastoral care may even be significantly poorer than at the local GS.

You might of course have out-of-county options that could be a better solution, but it will depend on where you live.

[anotherdad]

Some parents in this area assume their child must go to a Grammar regardless of whether they are academically or emotionally suited to it.

Absolutely. I think you're being rather generous with the word "some". I think the attitude is prolific in many parts of the county.

some are just being pushed too hard by parents who maybe confuse their children's achievements for their own.

Yes. Vicarious parenting is a problem. Many of those guilty of this haven't thought ahead to the employment landscape their children will enter, which will be entirely different from their own. They're just obsessed with the "status occupations" like medicine and law. Dinner party politics.

To provide some balance though, don't write off the system on a point of principle. It's all about the right sort of education for the child, not a school being intrinsically better or worse based on the type of school it is. I have a daughter at a grammar school who is doing very well but more importantly, she's happy, comfortable with the pace and style of education and understands the wider context of her schooling and where it might allow her to go. I have some fundamental concerns about the selection process but our lives are based in Bucks so we have accepted the system for what it is. If we felt more strongly about it, we would have moved to a comprehensive area.

[ToadMum]

Hi - thanks for the responses, interesting if it is just accepted practice and non one questions it. I will check out the Bucks forum, hadn't realised there was a separate one. Re: exam practice. Its not about that. I think children should be allowed to be children and seen as individuals. Some parents in this area assume their child must go to a Grammar regardless of whether they are academically or emotionally suited to it. I know of quite a few children with mental health issues, partic at Grammars for many reasons but some are just being pushed too hard by parents who maybe confuse their children's achievements for their own.

The world does not end if a child does not go to a Grammar school - I'd rather my child was secure and happy.

Many thanks

Not in your area (ours is opt-in), but

- just because some parents push their DC too hard, you don't have to do the same to yours. All three of our DC have attended / are attending grammar schools and both schools concerned seem fine with our mildly interested, generally supportive but otherwise let them get on with it, it's their homework, not ours, attitude.
- I'd rather ours were 'just children', or whatever they want to be. I've just picked DS2 up from Explorers; some of the other members also attend one or other of the local grammar schools, others attend various local comprehensives. They all do the same stuff, go on the same camps, hang out together in town after school and at the weekend.
- yes, grammar school kids can do messed up (for want of a better term) quite spectacularly, but some of the most messed up kids I've come across recently have actually been pupils at pastorally well thought of non-selective schools.

When you say, you do not want your child to take the 11+, is this entirely your decision, or have you involved the child in any kind of discussion as to his / her feelings on the subject? Will all their friends be going to upper school (either through parental ideology or their own ability level as demonstrated thus far)? Or will some probably go to grammar school, and if so, does s/he understand that going with them won't be an option, even if s/he is just as academically able, because s/he didn't sit the 11+?

I'm not knocking your decision, honest, I'm just curious .