Bucks secondary transfer test invitation email

[BlueBerry]

Errrm you were the anxious one very keen to find out where I got the cut-off score for Reading Boys. You didn't ask me on the thread but chose to PM and the tone of your email was very desperate I didn't out you but the ferocity of your emails did so.

Apologies if you found my post offensive.

[Aethel]

It could be just me, but I thought "preconception" was when a mummy-to-be buys folic acid from the chemist's shop because she is planning to give daddy a special hug....

Sorry if you have felt put upon, rayram, bluberry, 2littleboys and I all have DC sitting the bucks test this year. Many learned forum moderators (if you read previous threads on here) have warned us repeatedly that out-of-area applicants are extremely common and known to reduce the offers available to in-cachement and nearby applicants. Even Bucks County Council writes to every applicant with really quite strong wording to dissuade "tourists". All the same, it is not especially helpful to then retaliate with emotive language on here. Please be courteous to us as you would like us to be to you.

Shall we all move on?

[rayramano007]

It could be just me, but I thought "preconception" was when a mummy-to-be buys folic acid from the chemist's shop because she is planning to give daddy a special hug....

Sorry if you have felt put upon, rayram, bluberry, 2littleboys and I all have DC sitting the bucks test this year. Many learned forum moderators (if you read previous threads on here) have warned us repeatedly that out-of-area applicants are extremely common and known to reduce the offers available to in-cachement and nearby applicants. Even Bucks County Council writes to every applicant with really quite strong wording to dissuade "tourists". All the same, it is not especially helpful to then retaliate with emotive language on here. Please be courteous to us as you would like us to be to you.

Shall we all move on?

Yes. I'm willing to move on. Life is more important than worrying about what someone thought. I just wanted to clear about the misjudgement here.

On another note:

"preconception" - google has got the following:

noun: preconception; plural noun: preconceptions; noun: pre-conception; plural noun: pre-conceptions
a preconceived idea or prejudice.
synonyms: preconceived idea/notion, presupposition, assumption, presumption, prejudgement, expectation, prepossession; prejudice, bias; parti pris
"they had no preconceptions about his personality or his politics"


Also I'm trying to understand the following and not sure what I'm missing here:

Many learned forum moderators (if you read previous threads on here) have warned us repeatedly that out-of-area applicants are extremely common and known to reduce the offers available to in-cachement and nearby applicants.

For Bucks we have standard pass-mark. 121? You achieve the pass-mark and that's all that matters for the first step. It does not matter you get 180 or 160. Now let's say in-catchment child got 125 and out-catchment (tourist) got 140. How will that affect our offers available? Bucks will not even consider out-catchment. They will straightaway filter out out-of-catchment. Also they will use in-catchment, straight-line distance from the school. So it doesn't matter for grammar schools where tourist come from and whether they write or not. Why should we sweat about it and not just carry on with what we needed to do because we are in-catchment and within the straight-line distance bucks will consider. What am I missing?

The above scenario is a problem if you are not in the catchment area. But you are near the school but out-of-catchment. In that case the long distance tourist is a problem for near-by residence. But technically you are still out-of-catchment.

So it's best to be in catchment area and not worry about tourist. Am I correct?

Technically I should be annoyed with near-by applicants as well because we risk it all for in-catchment within miles distance for just one or two bucks grammar school. While the near-by applicants have multiple choice of selection (i.e. in-catchment and near-by catchment). That would be fair to say? is it not?

I would say every parent wants the best for the child. Everyone scarifies a lot. We all do. So when someone takes it out on other parent it just gets too much. We should sort of respect that and we all are in it and we all want the best for our child and we will do the best we can and move on with it.

Thanks

[rayramano007]

Errrm you were the anxious one very keen to find out where I got the cut-off score for Reading Boys. You didn't ask me on the thread but chose to PM and the tone of your email was very desperate I didn't out you but the ferocity of your emails did so.

Apologies if you found my post offensive.

Yes I did PM you.
Yes I'm anxious as well. I'm a parent!
I didn't ask in public forum because I felt it might be stupid question to ask without knowing what is cut-off pass mark and what is allocated mark. I was not even sure about my question.
I wanted to know why because I wanted to pass on information to my friends who have DC taking those exams to give them heads up that there are more students this year compared to last year. We help each other and share knowledge and experience. We talk a lot with each other to get through this phase. That's what friends do.
I'm shy and keep my head down and do my own things type.
I was ferocious because I was judged as someone I'm not and I had to defend myself.

[Aethel]

It could be just me, but I thought "preconception" was when a mummy-to-be buys folic acid from the chemist's shop because she is planning to give daddy a special hug....

Sorry if you have felt put upon, rayram, bluberry, 2littleboys and I all have DC sitting the bucks test this year. Many learned forum moderators (if you read previous threads on here) have warned us repeatedly that out-of-area applicants are extremely common and known to reduce the offers available to in-cachement and nearby applicants. Even Bucks County Council writes to every applicant with really quite strong wording to dissuade "tourists". All the same, it is not especially helpful to then retaliate with emotive language on here. Please be courteous to us as you would like us to be to you.

Shall we all move on?

Yes. I'm willing to move on. Life is more important than worrying about what someone thought. I just wanted to clear about the misjudgement here.

On another note:

"preconception" - google has got the following:

noun: preconception; plural noun: preconceptions; noun: pre-conception; plural noun: pre-conceptions
a preconceived idea or prejudice.
synonyms: preconceived idea/notion, presupposition, assumption, presumption, prejudgement, expectation, prepossession; prejudice, bias; parti pris
"they had no preconceptions about his personality or his politics"


Also I'm trying to understand the following and not sure what I'm missing here:

Many learned forum moderators (if you read previous threads on here) have warned us repeatedly that out-of-area applicants are extremely common and known to reduce the offers available to in-cachement and nearby applicants.

For Bucks we have standard pass-mark. 121? You achieve the pass-mark and that's all that matters for the first step. It does not matter you get 180 or 160. Now let's say in-catchment child got 125 and out-catchment (tourist) got 140. How will that affect our offers available? Bucks will not even consider out-catchment. They will straightaway filter out out-of-catchment. Also they will use in-catchment, straight-line distance from the school. So it doesn't matter for grammar schools where tourist come from and whether they write or not. Why should we sweat about it and not just carry on with what we needed to do because we are in-catchment and within the straight-line distance bucks will consider. What am I missing?

What you are missing, is that Bucks does not have a "standard pass mark" in the way you describe. It is not a "get e.g. 121 out of 150 and you will pass ". It is a Cohort exam, which means that as set percentage of entrants will "pass". So if 1000 children enter, all their raw scores will be lined up in order, the top 300 will be given an adjusted score that is 121 or more (AND YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE ACTUAL LEVEL OF SCORE DOES NOT MATTER once it's at or over 121). But to get that score in the first place, you have to BEAT THE SCORE OF 70% of the children who enter, not just achieve a certain number of correct answers.

So for every 3 children who "pass" there will be 7 who "do not pass", and it doesn't affect the score where those kids live at all. In an extreme example, if there are 1500 kids who live in Bucks tested and 1500 super-tutored kids from North London register to sit the exam, it could be possible that of those 3000 scores, NONE of the top 30% passing scores could go to Bucks children. Then if very few of the "passing" children actually put Bucks on their CAF forms, you can (and sometimes do) find that good children have beem denied a place by the miles-away children. It's not that the children are underperforming, but that for one child to get a "pass" mark, another two will be dropped down the ranking list and "lose" a place.

Oh and the "preconception" thing was a joke. Google "I'm sorry I haven't a clue radio 4 comedy" as they have a round where you make up alternative comedy meanings for long words.

[rayramano007]

What you are missing, is that Bucks does not have a "standard pass mark" in the way you describe. It is not a "get e.g. 121 out of 150 and you will pass ". It is a Cohort exam, which means that as set percentage of entrants will "pass". So if 1000 children enter, all their raw scores will be lined up in order, the top 300 will be given an adjusted score that is 121 or more (AND YOU ARE RIGHT THAT THE ACTUAL LEVEL OF SCORE DOES NOT MATTER once it's at or over 121). But to get that score in the first place, you have to BEAT THE SCORE OF 70% of the children who enter, not just achieve a certain number of correct answers.

So for every 3 children who "pass" there will be 7 who "do not pass", and it doesn't affect the score where those kids live at all. In an extreme example, if there are 1500 kids who live in Bucks tested and 1500 super-tutored kids from North London register to sit the exam, it could be possible that of those 3000 scores, NONE of the top 30% passing scores could go to Bucks children. Then if very few of the "passing" children actually put Bucks on their CAF forms, you can (and sometimes do) find that good children have beem denied a place by the miles-away children. It's not that the children are underperforming, but that for one child to get a "pass" mark, another two will be dropped down the ranking list and "lose" a place.

Oh and the "preconception" thing was a joke. Google "I'm sorry I haven't a clue radio 4 comedy" as they have a round where you make up alternative comedy meanings for long words.

Now that's very useful to know. Thanks for the information. I learned something new today.
So there is good that has come out of these discussions. Other's who read this thread will also learn in the future.
I didn't know anything about cohort systems.
My simple mind thought get 121 out of 150, be in-catchment, be within 'x' miles in straight-line from school front door and you are in!
How naive of me!
There is nothing I could do whether 1000 people take it or 10000 people take it. What will be will be!

with regards to the "preconception" joke. I was too offended to understand what is a joke and what is not.

Thanks

[streathammum]

The information about how the standardisation process works (incidentally it's the top 33%, not 30%, who 'pass') is on the website. I don't understand how anyone can have gone to the trouble of registering for a test, preparing for a test and taking children to sit a test without having looked at how they're marked.

You won't go wrong if you only sit tests for schools that you seriously intend to apply for, and for which you might be eligible for a place.

[rayramano007]

The information about how the standardisation process works (incidentally it's the top 33%, not 30%, who 'pass') is on the website. I don't understand how anyone can have gone to the trouble of registering for a test, preparing for a test and taking children to sit a test without having looked at how they're marked.

Is it compulsory that I need to know how they are marked? I'm applying for a school; DC needs to take exams; I understand what subjects they are being tested; buy books and help with studies as much as we can. That's it. I try to keep it simple. I'm not going to make my child travel million miles to attend the school either. What will be will be. Judging by what's going on here; maybe I'm not very well prepared for grammar school. If that is the case so be it.

You won't go wrong if you only sit tests for schools that you seriously intend to apply for, and for which you might be eligible for a place.

What are you trying to imply? Why would I put through my child for exams that I do not intend to apply for? Maybe we are not well prepared like you all and yes maybe I didn't understand how standardisation process works but that doesn't mean we were not serious about it. We know and work with what we know. Maybe I feel we are not as well prepared as we were meant to be. Thank you!

I feel I'm being bullied with all these judgements and questioning here. This is not the way to help people. I do not want to comment further and even look at this website any further.

Thank you.

[Aethel]

I feel I'm being bullied with all these judgements and questioning here. This is not the way to help people. I do not want to comment further and even look at this website any further.

Thank you.

Honestly, I think you are feeling judgements when there are none. At least three folks upthread have sent apologies when you have stated that you were upset by their comments. If you have left the discussion you won't see this comment...
But those of us who have been on this forum a while see the same sorts of comments again and again. In the last ten years or so many, many more people seem driven to push their children to grammars, and the down side is that it makes the process far harder than it used to be. None of this reflects upon you (or us) as parents for what we are trying to do for our DC. But it's a fact of life that internet forums will not always provide exactly the sort of comment one might wish for. Nevertheless we're on here to chat and advise and to try to get our DC a decent chance at getting the school place that's right for them, and that does involve us as parents learning how the process works.

Live long and prosper (which is not a joke: it's a Star Trek quote.)

[streathammum]

The information about how the standardisation process works (incidentally it's the top 33%, not 30%, who 'pass') is on the website. I don't understand how anyone can have gone to the trouble of registering for a test, preparing for a test and taking children to sit a test without having looked at how they're marked.

Is it compulsory that I need to know how they are marked? I'm applying for a school; DC needs to take exams; I understand what subjects they are being tested; buy books and help with studies as much as we can. That's it. I try to keep it simple. I'm not going to make my child travel million miles to attend the school either. What will be will be. Judging by what's going on here; maybe I'm not very well prepared for grammar school. If that is the case so be it.

You won't go wrong if you only sit tests for schools that you seriously intend to apply for, and for which you might be eligible for a place.

What are you trying to imply? Why would I put through my child for exams that I do not intend to apply for? Maybe we are not well prepared like you all and yes maybe I didn't understand how standardisation process works but that doesn't mean we were not serious about it. We know and work with what we know. Maybe I feel we are not as well prepared as we were meant to be. Thank you!

I feel I'm being bullied with all these judgements and questioning here. This is not the way to help people. I do not want to comment further and even look at this website any further.

Thank you.

I absolutely do expect you to have an understanding of what a 'pass' is on the tests your child is sitting. Why would you bother entering otherwise?

And there is a discussion (I think in this very thread) about people from Berkshire/Slough sitting the Bucks test as a practice. People do it - not necessarily you - but they do, and it's a waste of public money and I wish they wouldn't.