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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:14 pm 
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Hi Can anyone help me, i am a little confused with the 2019 admission policy - criteria number 4 for SHFGS which states the following:

'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed
admission.'


What does it actually mean? Would this policy be applicable if at the time of applying for a place my younger child is in Year 6 and my elder child is in Year 12? Because when my younger one would actually start the school in Year 7 (assuming he is successful) my older child would be starting Year 13.

Is this policy relevant for the above scenario?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:33 pm
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a_mummy wrote:
Hi Can anyone help me, i am a little confused with the 2019 admission policy - criteria number 4 for SHFGS which states the following:

'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed
admission.'


What does it actually mean? Would this policy be applicable if at the time of applying for a place my younger child is in Year 6 and my elder child is in Year 12? Because when my younger one would actually start the school in Year 7 (assuming he is successful) my older child would be starting Year 13.

Is this policy relevant for the above scenario?

I think the "main point of admission" refers to the main allocation date in March. If that's correct, it means that your older child will be in year 12 at that point, meaning the sibling rule applies in your situation. I assume the intention is to ensure at least one year of "overlap" and by implication, simplified travel arrangements for siblings.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 9235
Location: Buckinghamshire
a_mummy wrote:
'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed
admission.'


What does it actually mean? Would this policy be applicable if at the time of applying for a place my younger child is in Year 6 and my elder child is in Year 12? Because when my younger one would actually start the school in Year 7 (assuming he is successful) my older child would be starting Year 13.
To confirm, anotherdad is absolutely correct: your younger child would enter the school while the older child is still a pupil there. That is the bottom line.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:01 pm
Posts: 8
Sally-Anne wrote:
a_mummy wrote:
'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed
admission.'


What does it actually mean? Would this policy be applicable if at the time of applying for a place my younger child is in Year 6 and my elder child is in Year 12? Because when my younger one would actually start the school in Year 7 (assuming he is successful) my older child would be starting Year 13.
To confirm, anotherdad is absolutely correct: your younger child would enter the school while the older child is still a pupil there. That is the bottom line.


In addition to the following stated in criteria 4 for the over subscription criteria 'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed'
the 2019 policy then states the following in the 'Definition of sibling'... 'A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if
he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the allocations are made (March
2016 for the main point of entry) and is still expected to be on the school’s roll
at the time of the proposed admission (September 2016) or Years 7-11 at the
time of admission for in-year admissions.'

What does this then mean? Is it that the sibling rule then only applies if the the older one is in Years 7-11? The two statements are confusing and slightly contradicting...can anyone help? Also does the sibling rule apply to out of catchment children as well?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:10 pm
Posts: 9235
Location: Buckinghamshire
a_mummy wrote:
In addition to the following stated in criteria 4 for the over subscription criteria 'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed'
the 2019 policy then states the following in the 'Definition of sibling'... 'A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if
he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the allocations are made (March
2016 for the main point of entry) and is still expected to be on the school’s roll
at the time of the proposed admission (September 2016) or Years 7-11 at the
time of admission for in-year admissions.'

What does this then mean?

What it means is that someone at SHF has copied and pasted a number of definitions from another school's admissions policy or similar document without checking that the definition is consistent with their own, in-house policy.

It drives me crazy that so many of the Bucks Grammars (and others) do this. No one takes the time to actually read the whole document each year, they just bolt on new bits as time goes by. I've found countless examples of it in recent years and it's just sloppy.

Quote:
Also does the sibling rule apply to out of catchment children as well?

Siblings (rule 4) take priority over catchment children (rule 5). The rules are applied in the strict order that they are given.

I suggest that you email the Admissions Officer at SHF to point out the discrepancy between their own sibling rule and the definition, asking for confirmation in writing that the intended rule is applied to siblings of children in Y7 - 12.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:11 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:01 pm
Posts: 8
Sally-Anne wrote:
a_mummy wrote:
In addition to the following stated in criteria 4 for the over subscription criteria 'For the main point of admission, siblings of students in Years 7 to 12 at the
school who are on roll and will be on the roll at the time of the proposed'
the 2019 policy then states the following in the 'Definition of sibling'... 'A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if
he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the allocations are made (March
2016 for the main point of entry) and is still expected to be on the school’s roll
at the time of the proposed admission (September 2016) or Years 7-11 at the
time of admission for in-year admissions.'

What does this then mean?

What it means is that someone at SHF has copied and pasted a number of definitions from another school's admissions policy or similar document without checking that the definition is consistent with their own, in-house policy.

It drives me crazy that so many of the Bucks Grammars (and others) do this. No one takes the time to actually read the whole document each year, they just bolt on new bits as time goes by. I've found countless examples of it in recent years and it's just sloppy.

Quote:
Also does the sibling rule apply to out of catchment children as well?

Siblings (rule 4) take priority over catchment children (rule 5). The rules are applied in the strict order that they are given.

I suggest that you email the Admissions Officer at SHF to point out the discrepancy between their own sibling rule and the definition, asking for confirmation in writing that the intended rule is applied to siblings of children in Y7 - 12.


Thank you for getting back to me. I rang the school and they said they are not sure and to speak to Bucks CC. I rang Bucks CC but you can only email them and not speak to anyone. In the past when i have been able to ring Bucks CC they have always said speak to the school!! It's a vicious circle!! I even emailed the Head of the school but have not had any response!! I don't want to put my younger child through the stress of the 11 plus if they don't have any chance of getting in.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:27 am 
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Posts: 1763
That's ridiculous - how can the school not be sure of their own admissions policy?

I'm a little confused by your dates - from your post a while back I assumed your younger child was sitting this year for 2019 entry but you've just wondered about whether or not to put them through the test? Do you mean your younger child is now in year 5 and will sit the test in 2019 for 2020 entry? If so, be careful that it doesn't change between now and then.

Edited to add: I've just checked their admissions policy and I see what you mean. I think it's a hangover from a previous policy, or as Sally-Anne says, a lazy copy-and-paste from a previous policy. The clue is in the old dates:

A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the allocations are made (March 2016 for the main point of entry) and is still expected to be on the school’s roll at the time of the proposed admission (September 2016) or Years 7-11 at the time of admission for in-year admissions.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:35 am 
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Posts: 9235
Location: Buckinghamshire
a_mummy wrote:
Thank you for getting back to me. I rang the school and they said they are not sure and to speak to Bucks CC.

Not good enough, C-, must try harder.

As an Academy, the school sets its own Admissions Policy, and the responsibility for it lies squarely on their shoulders. Bucks CC merely applies the admission rules on their behalf.

I haven't got time at the moment to dig around, but I suspect I know where the text for the definitions came from, and that may be what has caused the uncertainty.

You need to email the school back and say that the Admissions Policy is determined by the Governing body, not BCC, and it is from the Governing Body (or their representative) that clarification should be forthcoming.

(I've cross-posted with anotherdad, but it would be helpful if you could tell us if your son took the test this year or is taking it next year. If it is next year, the draft admissions policy for 2020 has yet to be published and consulted upon.)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:37 am 
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Location: Buckinghamshire
anotherdad wrote:
Edited to add: I've just checked their admissions policy and I see what you mean. I think it's a hangover from a previous policy, or as Sally-Anne says, a lazy copy-and-paste from a previous policy. The clue is in the old dates:

A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the allocations are made (March 2016 for the main point of entry) and is still expected to be on the school’s roll at the time of the proposed admission (September 2016) or Years 7-11 at the time of admission for in-year admissions.

Thanks, anotherdad. You've just confirmed my suspicions, and the source is exactly what I thought it might be.

I'm downgrading the school to a D-, sloppy work, more application and attention to detail required.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:01 pm
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anotherdad wrote:
That's ridiculous - how can the school not be sure of their own admissions policy?

I'm a little confused by your dates - from your post a while back I assumed your younger child was sitting this year for 2019 entry but you've just wondered about whether or not to put them through the test? Do you mean your younger child is now in year 5 and will sit the test in 2019 for 2020 entry? If so, be careful that it doesn't change between now and then.

Edited to add: I've just checked their admissions policy and I see what you mean. I think it's a hangover from a previous policy, or as Sally-Anne says, a lazy copy-and-paste from a previous policy. The clue is in the old dates:

A pupil in a secondary school will only count to provide a priority to a sibling if he or she is attending the school in Y7 to Y10 at the allocations are made (March 2016 for the main point of entry) and is still expected to be on the school’s roll at the time of the proposed admission (September 2016) or Years 7-11 at the time of admission for in-year admissions.


My son would sit the test in September 2020 as he is currently in Year 4.


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