Out of county applicants for 2019 test

[dreams]

Dear all, I’m not angry, sorry if my post sends such a message.

I’m actually happy that there are counties that somehow managing to help children they are responsible for, to keep madness of 11+ at bay, in some way at least.
It’s just strange when some parents “don’t understand” why other parents are anxiously running around and trying to find ways to help their children to secure a place in a good school.

I don’t have enough relevant skills and expertise to discuss details of the problem or come up with a good solution to solve it. I just want to point out one important, in my opinion, fact. We are all in the same boat and this boat is sinking.

To get your child into a good primary school, you have to move as much close to its gates as possible, after that, ideally, family have to move again, to get a place in a good secondary school. The problem is not selfish OoC area parents, the problem - we don’t have enough good schools.

We all can talk about good local comprehensive schools, with outstanding ratings etc but the trick is that Oxbridge and top Russell group universities don’t care how outstanding those schools are.
They care how many A*-B your child got in GCSE exams, how many predicted As they’ve got for their A-levels. Also, as a parent, I have no idea what subjects my DC will be willing to study, so I’m looking at the school’s performance in so called “English Baccalaureate”, or how many children are taking triple sciences instead of the easier option, what’s school’s performance in maths and English etc. To find this information about good comprehensive school a parent would need to go through 2,000 lines in Excel file that can be downloaded from the government's official website.

I’ve got older DD, she’s finishing school this year. She was very lucky, 7 years ago she got a place in a grammar school.
Last year we went to open day in Oxford university. The first question my DD was asked was how many A&A* she had in her GCSE exams, all her B scores were simply irrelevant and predicted triple As in her A levels weren’t event for a discussion, they’re simply must to have.

I’ll be the first in line to send my child to a local comprehensive school, the one that has enough resources and can show that at least 50% of all GCSE entries are scoring A*-B, the only marks that are relevant when choosing and planning to go to a good university.

Answering question regarding our local schools and how many places they set aside specifically for children who do not live in Pinner, we don’t have schools that can show the same academic performance as Watford or Bucks grammar and our schools just take all children from the catchment area. They're good in terms of extracurricular activities, big and bright, overall nice places for children to learn.

P.S. personally, we're not planning to apply for Bucks schools or any other schools that have catchment areas.

[Deb70]

Of course all parents want the best for their children, and the Bucks test is open to all parents.
But just like any other schools, they are allowed to have oversubscription criteria, and one of these is distance from the school. There's nothing wrong with having catchment areas, all schools do it.
So if a child will have no chance of a place even if they pass the test then what is the point of them doing the test? There is no point, it isn't advantageous for the child and it also disadvantages other children.
In my DCs school there are children who passed the test and were in tears on Friday because they weren't allocated a Bucks grammar. They are too far away. How is that situation good for those children, and how is it good for the children they displaced out of the top 30%, who may have anxiously waited for a selection review for four months, and still been disappointed?

[Blue_Marigold]

I’m actually happy that there are counties that somehow managing to help children they are responsible for, to keep madness of 11+ at bay, in some way at least

Are you talking about Bucks or Pinner?

[Aethel]

Dreams... I am curious... why does a school have to have “at least 50% of all GCSE grades being A*-B” (or in new money, grades 6-9) for the school to be “worth it”?

The cohort who go IN to a school reflects their end grades, as well as the quality of teaching. Those with motivated parents who push and encourage and sometimes tutor,
Will have an advantage. Those who are naturally highly intelligent, also an advantage.
Those who are motivated and always work consistently, and are happy and secure, will also do well to the best of their ability.

Grammar schools are not mystical places full of sparkles and unicorns.
They admit only the children who are bright OR tutored OR Both.
They have a higher proportion of middle/upper class families and a higher proportion of “ambitious” parents who “want the best educational opportunities for their DC” (don’t most ofnus!)
So the kids who go in are already advantaged and more likely to do well .

Upper schools (in Bucks which is fully selective as a county) take only those children who either didnmt pass the 11 plus, or who passed but chose not to select a grammar school (there are some, believe it or not). They have a wide range of ability student. The fact that <50% get a*-B grades does not reflect failures of that school, more that the ability range of the stufents is NOT THE SAME as at the grammar.

If your children all went to a nonselective, even a “satisfactory” one, guess what, with your motivation and support they would probably still do well. Grades are a means to an end, and I think you’re putting Grammar schools on a pedestal unecessarily.

Oh, and Grammar Schools which get super-good A level results? Guess what, they achieve that by refusing to admit students who they think won’t do well: if you’re at a Grammar and have mediocre grades, you are kicked out after GCSE, and your place is filled with a bright overachiever, often from a nearby comprehensive, who then “benefits from the Grammar sixth form” while the ex Grammar student has to transfer to an alternative sixth form whether they like it or not. So it doesn’t always reflect that the GS is brilliant (though they generally do tend to attract good teachers), just that they are selecting the brightest and the best. So surprise, out come some great results!

[dreams]

Of course all parents want the best for their children, and the Bucks test is open to all parents.
But just like any other schools, they are allowed to have oversubscription criteria, and one of these is distance from the school. There's nothing wrong with having catchment areas, all schools do it.
So if a child will have no chance of a place even if they pass the test then what is the point of them doing the test? There is no point, it isn't advantageous for the child and it also disadvantages other children.
In my DCs school there are children who passed the test and were in tears on Friday because they weren't allocated a Bucks grammar. They are too far away. How is that situation good for those children, and how is it good for the children they displaced out of the top 30%, who may have anxiously waited for a selection review for four months, and still been disappointed?

[dreams]

Dreams... I am curious... why does a school have to have “at least 50% of all GCSE grades being A*-B” (or in new money, grades 6-9) for the school to be “worth it”?

Just my wishful thinking:) It's coming from my own experience of being at school one of a few "losers" who can manage to get As and Bs. It's difficult when you're teenager, can't see the full picture but quite certain that you're not of the "cool people" in the class.
My older DD finishing grammar school and looking back, I can tell, I won't be able constantly motivate, push and encourage her
during those 5-7 years. I simply don't have enough knowledge and experience. I'm grateful that all those years we had a good support from the school.

If your children all went to a nonselective, even a “satisfactory” one, guess what, with your motivation and support they would probably still do well. Grades are a means to an end, and I think you’re putting Grammar schools on a pedestal unecessarily.

You're absolutely right, there are children who are getting good scores at any school and it's possible that my would probably do well too.

I understand that grammar vs comprehensive is a matter of a personal preference and there are lots of opinions.
My point was, that the system must be changed, not parents turned against each other.

[ToadMum]

I understand that grammar vs comprehensive is a matter of a personal preference and there are lots of opinions.
My point was, that the system must be changed, not parents turned against each other.

But if you live in a local authority where your nearest grammar school is in a different local authority, your own local authority has made the decision to 'change things'. Forty -plus years ago. At that time, those with responsibility for education in your local authority will have made the decision to comply with the policy of the government of the day and change from their version of the selective system (be it grammar / secondary modern, or grammar / technical high school / secondary modern, as the architects of the system originally intended) and adopt the comprehensive system. i.e. almost certainly before the vast majority of parents with a first DC entering secondary school this year were born and definitely well before those DC entered the education system.

[loopylala]

The problem is not selfish OoC area parents, the problem - we don’t have enough good schools.

If your local schools are so bad, why did you choose not to move?

[Deb70]

My point was, that the system must be changed.

The system isn't changing any time soon so we have to live with what's there. It's not Buckinghamshire's fault that other counties don't have selective schools! If people are that desperate to get their children into grammar schools then they should move to a grammar school area. Schools should always be a consideration when moving into a property. Do your research!

[TheHurdle]

Sorry to be thick but for non super selective grammars how does out of catchment children affect the results?

121 is a pass no?

Surely its only super selective like kendrick where points could be raised?

As for moving, couldnt the same be said for those who have chosen to live in a grammar country> Just move if you dont like it?

Or perhaps people cant move for many reasons or never expected to live where they ended up> it costs about 10 grand to move apparently, maybe people cant pull on that to move?
maybe people are careers to disabled relatives or need to live near vulnerable relatives etc or ended up where they live for push factors.

I'm genuinely not understanding the pushing up of marks comment but generally I just cant judge people for their choices really because I dont know why they have chosen that path or made those choices.