How much time does your child spend 11+ tutoring (inc. DIY)?

[mm23292]

As of yet, we have not started any preparation. I know schools probably say this to all parents, but we felt it right to take their advice on board, and avoid the tutoring / over preparation hot house. Our school makes recommendations on whether children should sit the test or not, based on CATS and school performance etc, and we've been told she is suitable. As academics have been very strong this far, we aim to do a few test papers in the summer, just to familiarise. We did this with our first child a few years ago now, which did unfortunately work against her, but their academic profiles were quite different..Avg low 120's on CATS versus 141..so appeal did not go well. Having said that, she did fantastically well in secondary, and is now at a very good RG, so it all worked out in the end...
I think if it has taught us anything, it is that it is not the end of the world if they don't pass. Their path will unfold somehow. And I don't think the frenzy of preparation that many parents put their children through, is in any way beneficial to their ultimate academic success.

[sookipixeldust]

Thanks mm23292

Having tutored my first, I do feel that actually all 11+ tutoring is useful, whether or not it leads to grammar school. My eldest found it difficult to retain the various maths methods, and benefited from regularly circling back over these methods. The Y6 SATs ended up being a breeze, and meant that if grammar school hadn't been a possibility, then it is likely they would have ended up in a grammar stream at a comprehensive. While I can't make the same argument for NVR, I think all the comprehension, SPAG, and maths exercises have a long-term benefit and builds a good foundation for secondary school, consolidating what the primary school is teaching. My youngest needs extra help with spellings, and I hope that that our regular morning spelling sessions will help them throughout their life.

*May I ask a question - what are the CATs?* I see reference to them all the time, but I've never had CAT scores for either of my children.

[Tinkers]

CATs

Cognitive ability tests. A number of schools use them for various reasons. My DDs school did them in year 4 and from what she said at the time, these were GL VR and NVR type questions.

As far as I could work out they didn’t do much with the results, but other schools might.

[Deb70]

*May I ask a question - what are the CATs?* I see reference to them all the time, but I've never had CAT scores for either of my children.

Our school also doesn't do CATs, however the STAR reading scheme assessments are classed as CATs.

[sookipixeldust]

Thanks very much (again) Tinkers and Deb70

I will ask about CATS and STAR reading scheme assessments results at the next parent's evening!

[greengekho]

Hi,
I am also DIY'ing. I am not doing anywhere near as much as you are though!
I DIY'd my older boy two years ago for CEM. I wouldn't have said he was particularly above his peer group. Top 5-10% maybe, but by no means a genius. We did about an hour per week until the summer hols. During the hols, we did more, but not an excessive amount. He got a really strong pass despite not doing loads, and despite not actually being a genius type child!
So with my second boy (current Y5), I am sort of doing the same, though IMO so fa I do think the GL stuff is more 'tutor type' stuff...making sure we have covered off questions styles etc. TBH I felt last time that the stuff my older boy covered would e useful whether he qualified or not...but this time it feels like we are not covering topics but question styles...more geared towards studying to qualify than studying to improve knowledge either way.
We do an hour a week at the moment. Four areas, so two per week. E.g.Wk1 - 10 min NVR, mark it and discuss/go over any questions I feel he should have managed so half an hour. 10 min English/mark/discuss. Wk2, Maths and VR same thing. Repeat for 3-4 weeks, then take a week off either doing a mock paper or focussing on a topic e.g. Area/perimeter/volume. So far so good - he isn't as right as his elder brother but somehow seems to be getting higher marks at this stage in comparison.
Bottom line - no, I don't think you need to worry that you are not doing enough - you are doing way more than we are, and my approach worked fine for a good-but-not-genius kid!
Hope that helps,
Steph

[Deb70]

I used the same approach for my two boys. One passed CEM with a very high score. The younger one didn't pass GL. For me, CEM was "normal" maths and English but GL (especially verbal) was just learning how to remember specific techniques and perform them very quickly. DS passed the maths paper but not the VR, but I feel that he would have passed the CEM VR (elder DS said he didn't think he would have passed the GL).

[sookipixeldust]

Thanks Steph (greengekho) and Deb70.

I've realised over the last few days (since posting this), that I've probably overstated the amounts I tutor my child. I've been checking the clock, and while our morning (between breakfast and setting off for school) slot sometimes tops 15 minutes, it's usually about 10 minutes. Our slot after picking up from childcare (I work full time) is nearer the 20 minute mark. So we're probably doing about 30 minutes a day, which is more than my eldest did, but then I feel that the GL exam has more separate elements than the CEM exam, and also we need to spend extra time on spellings. Since our youngest seems happy with this routine, and rarely complains about doing 'homework', I will carry on with the timings, but not do anymore; it sounds like we're doing enough (so thanks for that reassurance).

However, what I've found particularly helpful from this exercise - and thanks again to all the kind people who've posted answers to my original questions - is achieving a fuller understanding that the GL exam is fundamentally different to the CEM exam. I can see now that what worked for eldest won't necessarily work for youngest, and that I need to concentrate more on exam strategy, timings, question styles, speed and technique. I agree with Steph's (greengekho) thoughts that all this 'tutor type' stuff is less useful for actual education, which is a shame.

Luckily, I'm already using books that were suggested for DIYers, and they focus on questions styles etc, but I will start doing more timed tests online to increase speed and stamina, and work on exam strategy in general.

Thanks again to everyone who has replied - I'm really very grateful, and it has changed my approach in ways that I wasn't expecting.

[Deb70]

Good luck, Sookipixeldust! I hope my experience will help you and anyone else facing the eleven plus to avoid being in the horrendous position of seeing your child upset that they've "failed".....and the awful wait for selection review results while you wait to hear if your child has been "deemed" suitable. I hope everything works out for you.

[mm23292]

Hi Sooki..I do agree some input in that regard can certainly be helpful for a child. It was more the hot house mentality I was referring to, in the sense I don't think it is helpful towards motivating or inspiring a general enthusiasm for learning. Of course some children might cope with the process better, and are perhaps naturally competitive, mature etc, so may perhaps 'want' to spend hours doing extra preparation, but I'm sure if they are anything like my summer born 9 year old, they simply want to play

Our school uses both CATs and Star reading assessments, and they are both quite different. Star reading is purely a reading/comprehension assessment, which is used for setting targets for children, based on determining their 'reading age' and encouraging book choice in levels which fall in their zone of proximal development, i.e, sufficient to challenge, but not overwhelm.
CATs however, are standardised cognitive ability tests, which are set for four areas, NVR, VR, Quantitative and Spatial reasoning. As they are not prepared for, and are set without notice in year 4 and year 5, they are intended to reflect natural ability. While some children will have verbal or non-verbal bias, our HT advises an overall average of 120 or above on these tests, as supportive evidence for GS suitability. Of course, other factors are taken into consideration too, but generally, this is what they are looking for.