12+ Late Transfer
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incegreen
11+/12+
Hi
I'm really enjoying this forum. Just to know there are people out there that understand is tremendously helpful and with really good advice too!
My son didn't pass the last 11+ nor did he pass his appeal, infact no appeals were passed at his school. We were told that this was because of the previous years debacle at Borlase. He now wants to sit the 12+ but is it worth it? He is off to Great Marlow which we think is a great but he still feels a failure.
Unfortunatly my daughter sits the 11+ in October so it has been somewhat relentless. She too isn`t particularly comfortable with vr possibly because we've only been here 2 years and vr is still an alien concept.
It's all horrible and i hate the whole system. We moved for better schooling but have ended up with stressed out kids who feel useless and stupid.
I'm really enjoying this forum. Just to know there are people out there that understand is tremendously helpful and with really good advice too!
My son didn't pass the last 11+ nor did he pass his appeal, infact no appeals were passed at his school. We were told that this was because of the previous years debacle at Borlase. He now wants to sit the 12+ but is it worth it? He is off to Great Marlow which we think is a great but he still feels a failure.
Unfortunatly my daughter sits the 11+ in October so it has been somewhat relentless. She too isn`t particularly comfortable with vr possibly because we've only been here 2 years and vr is still an alien concept.
It's all horrible and i hate the whole system. We moved for better schooling but have ended up with stressed out kids who feel useless and stupid.
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi incegreen
I'm sorry to hear about your son - we went through exactly the same thing. I think it's great that your son wants to take the 12+ - does he give you any reasons? If he's pinning his hopes on it to join friends at grammar school or if he is staking his self-esteem on it, then you should be concerned. If, however, he's just taking the attitude of "I'll have a go and see what happens" then perhaps you should let him.
I'm afraid that your daughter's reaction to VR has nothing to do with having lived in the area a short while. Kids can either do it or they can't - my older one can't, my younger one would pass the 11+ tomorrow, and he's only in Year 3!
All you can do is manage your children's expectations I'm afraid, and stay as relaxed as you can about it. And yes, I do know that's easier said than done.
Good luck
Sally-Anne
I'm sorry to hear about your son - we went through exactly the same thing. I think it's great that your son wants to take the 12+ - does he give you any reasons? If he's pinning his hopes on it to join friends at grammar school or if he is staking his self-esteem on it, then you should be concerned. If, however, he's just taking the attitude of "I'll have a go and see what happens" then perhaps you should let him.
I'm afraid that your daughter's reaction to VR has nothing to do with having lived in the area a short while. Kids can either do it or they can't - my older one can't, my younger one would pass the 11+ tomorrow, and he's only in Year 3!
All you can do is manage your children's expectations I'm afraid, and stay as relaxed as you can about it. And yes, I do know that's easier said than done.
Good luck
Sally-Anne
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incegreen
12+
Hiya
I think my son wants to sit the 12+ because he feels he can do it, he says that he may stay at Great Marlow even if he does pass, it's simply to prove to himself that he is not a failure, which of course he isn't.
What happens if he is refused the test, are we given grounds? Surely it's in Great Marlow interests to keep hold of its more able students so why would they recommend him?
Also my daughter is very inconsistent with her scoring, varying from 65%-90%, is it too late or should we plod on with practice?
Thanks
I think my son wants to sit the 12+ because he feels he can do it, he says that he may stay at Great Marlow even if he does pass, it's simply to prove to himself that he is not a failure, which of course he isn't.
What happens if he is refused the test, are we given grounds? Surely it's in Great Marlow interests to keep hold of its more able students so why would they recommend him?
Also my daughter is very inconsistent with her scoring, varying from 65%-90%, is it too late or should we plod on with practice?
Thanks
Dear incegreen
Sound advice from Sally-Anne.
I'm not the best person to advise on your daughter's scores, but I can comment on your question about upper schools and the 12+.
The criteria for entry to late selection are known - read the thread "Question for Patricia (and others?) about 12+".
Any decent upper school would put the pupil's interests before those of the school. Appeal panels are usually quite shrewd, and any upper school that failed to support a pupil whom it knew to be suitable for the 12+ is likely to have its non-recommendation overturned.
Sound advice from Sally-Anne.
I'm not the best person to advise on your daughter's scores, but I can comment on your question about upper schools and the 12+.
The criteria for entry to late selection are known - read the thread "Question for Patricia (and others?) about 12+".
Any decent upper school would put the pupil's interests before those of the school. Appeal panels are usually quite shrewd, and any upper school that failed to support a pupil whom it knew to be suitable for the 12+ is likely to have its non-recommendation overturned.
Etienne
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi incegreen
The County stipulate that a child taking the 12+ should have 2 x Level 5 SATs. If your son hasn't got those, then they may refuse a test and the school's recommendation will be very important for an "Appeal to test".
I agree with Etienne that no upper school would reasonably prevent a child from maximising their potential, and I am sure that they will have dealt with this situation many times before. It is particularly common with boys, as they mature later, so the 12+ works in their favour. Do discuss it with the Head if you have any worries.
For your daughter, why not try downloading the CD on VR that has just been produced by the owner of this site and Mike Edwards from The Tutors? It is entirely suited to the Bucks test - go to the homepage, downloads. It gives you an overview of problem question types, and you can get a wealth of information on the most tricky questions from this forum. If you can't find the answer by "searching" the forum, post a message and I know that someone will pop up with the methodology you need.
Perhaps the addition of computer fun will alleviate the plodding feeling (especially in this heat) and get the scores up? My experience was that boredom deflated my son's scores in practice papers. Your son might find the CD useful as quick revision for the 12+ nearer the time?
Tell your daughter that VR and the 11+ are not everyone's cup of tea. I tell my son that he can do English, Maths, Science, Geography, History, any academic subject there is, but his brain just can't do Verbal Reasoning as easily as the next kid - it just doesn't work that way. He might be lucky for the 12+, he might not. He knows that a few children got the 11+ with very high scores who are way below him academically, so he sees the logic in that. he also realises that his Mum can do VR very well, but his Dad, who has far higher academic qualifications, fails horribly at it!
Do post again when you need more help. This forum is very quiet at the moment, as it is closed season for the 11+ from around April to September. However, it is gaining users and momentum every day.
I do wish it had been here when we started out back in 2003/2004, as I would have done many things so differently!
Sally-Anne
The County stipulate that a child taking the 12+ should have 2 x Level 5 SATs. If your son hasn't got those, then they may refuse a test and the school's recommendation will be very important for an "Appeal to test".
I agree with Etienne that no upper school would reasonably prevent a child from maximising their potential, and I am sure that they will have dealt with this situation many times before. It is particularly common with boys, as they mature later, so the 12+ works in their favour. Do discuss it with the Head if you have any worries.
For your daughter, why not try downloading the CD on VR that has just been produced by the owner of this site and Mike Edwards from The Tutors? It is entirely suited to the Bucks test - go to the homepage, downloads. It gives you an overview of problem question types, and you can get a wealth of information on the most tricky questions from this forum. If you can't find the answer by "searching" the forum, post a message and I know that someone will pop up with the methodology you need.
Perhaps the addition of computer fun will alleviate the plodding feeling (especially in this heat) and get the scores up? My experience was that boredom deflated my son's scores in practice papers. Your son might find the CD useful as quick revision for the 12+ nearer the time?
Tell your daughter that VR and the 11+ are not everyone's cup of tea. I tell my son that he can do English, Maths, Science, Geography, History, any academic subject there is, but his brain just can't do Verbal Reasoning as easily as the next kid - it just doesn't work that way. He might be lucky for the 12+, he might not. He knows that a few children got the 11+ with very high scores who are way below him academically, so he sees the logic in that. he also realises that his Mum can do VR very well, but his Dad, who has far higher academic qualifications, fails horribly at it!
Do post again when you need more help. This forum is very quiet at the moment, as it is closed season for the 11+ from around April to September. However, it is gaining users and momentum every day.
I do wish it had been here when we started out back in 2003/2004, as I would have done many things so differently!
Sally-Anne
Dear Incegreen
Re your daughter, if you realistically think your daughter should be in a grammar, then go for it. Its NOT too late. Have you seen my various posts on what papers to use?
See viewtopic.php?t=622
Your son and the late transfer test, again, if you think a grammar is suitable, go for it. You just need a plan and then stick to it!
If any help is needed just ask.
Patricia
Re your daughter, if you realistically think your daughter should be in a grammar, then go for it. Its NOT too late. Have you seen my various posts on what papers to use?
See viewtopic.php?t=622
Your son and the late transfer test, again, if you think a grammar is suitable, go for it. You just need a plan and then stick to it!
If any help is needed just ask.
Patricia
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Jude
12+
I have been trying to put my daughters name down for the 12+ next year. She didnt get throught her appeal and we are still not sure why. At the time of the 11+ she was taking medication for epilepsy - a brain depressant. She managed to get 116 on both papers and had very supportive letters from her class teacher and doctors - but it wasnt to be. We are happy with the out of county comprehensive and she has finished taking medication (the risk of the seizures seems preferable to having her brain messed about with) but when we received her SAT's results - all 5's, we felt that she had been unjustly treated.
We have been told that we cannot apply for the 12+ until September, is this right? We may decide to let it drop, depending how she gets on at the comp, at least there she is considered to be 'Gifted and Talented' because of her SAT's and her music exam results. The SAT's results have helped her to feel better about herself, many of her friends that passed the 11+ and the ones who got through on appeal didnt achieve such good scores.
Jude
We have been told that we cannot apply for the 12+ until September, is this right? We may decide to let it drop, depending how she gets on at the comp, at least there she is considered to be 'Gifted and Talented' because of her SAT's and her music exam results. The SAT's results have helped her to feel better about herself, many of her friends that passed the 11+ and the ones who got through on appeal didnt achieve such good scores.
Jude
Dear Jude
Yes, Bucks cc are correct in saying you cannot apply for the late transfer until September. See the following link, which is applicable to 2006 rather than 2007. Have not heard that it will be any different.
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get//asse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... cedure.pdf
Patrica
Yes, Bucks cc are correct in saying you cannot apply for the late transfer until September. See the following link, which is applicable to 2006 rather than 2007. Have not heard that it will be any different.
http://www.buckscc.gov.uk/bcc/get//asse" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... cedure.pdf
Patrica
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Sally-Anne
- Posts: 9235
- Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 8:10 pm
- Location: Buckinghamshire
Hi Jude
Nice to see you back on the forum again! I assume Bucks will post the relevant information about 12+ in the next few weeks, as we're hanging on for it too.
As I understand the system you have to apply for the 12+ by roughly Christmas, and the exam takes place in April. I can see no reason why you shouldn't go through that process and then decide in April whether or not to actually sit the exam, depending on how you all feel at the time. I don;t think Bucks CC will send out a search party for missing candidates on the day!
I think you are very wise to think of leaving your daughter at comp - gifted and talented is going to be a huge boost to her morale after the disappointment of the 11+, and she may well turn out far better there. I feel sorry for the children who can do VR but don't actually have the academic ability to really keep up at GS - we know one or two, and I think they're going to be very unhappy, despite their huge VR scores. Sadly all entrance tests remain a very blunt tool, and the Bucks VR is one of the worst.
Good luck - let us know how you get on.
Sally-Anne
Nice to see you back on the forum again! I assume Bucks will post the relevant information about 12+ in the next few weeks, as we're hanging on for it too.
As I understand the system you have to apply for the 12+ by roughly Christmas, and the exam takes place in April. I can see no reason why you shouldn't go through that process and then decide in April whether or not to actually sit the exam, depending on how you all feel at the time. I don;t think Bucks CC will send out a search party for missing candidates on the day!
I think you are very wise to think of leaving your daughter at comp - gifted and talented is going to be a huge boost to her morale after the disappointment of the 11+, and she may well turn out far better there. I feel sorry for the children who can do VR but don't actually have the academic ability to really keep up at GS - we know one or two, and I think they're going to be very unhappy, despite their huge VR scores. Sadly all entrance tests remain a very blunt tool, and the Bucks VR is one of the worst.
Good luck - let us know how you get on.
Sally-Anne
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Jed
Hello Jude
I too think your daughter wasn't fairly treated but I would tread carefully before deciding to move or disrupt her.
Although our daughter doesn't have the medical problems, her case has parallels - she scored 116, was considered a "cert" for passing, achieved three level 5s in her SATs and is now going to the good comp across the border with a thriving G&T programme and rave parent reviews (I wonder whether it's the same one?!).
She's currently feeling good about herself after the upset of the 11 plus. We didn't appeal, but even if we had I think the 12+ is risky and a distraction from the start of secondary. But I do understand that it's a necessary evil for those who aren't lucky enough to have good second option and believe their children's education will suffer.
Our elder daughter is in grammar but also has friends in the comp. Like for like, I think most have achieved similarly although the grammar does boost some subjects. Having said that grammar results look very good because they don't have any special needs or below average pupils (and they also throw some out who don't make the grade at GCSE or AS!), so you have to be careful when comparing exam tables.
I would make the 12+/13+ a last resort if you feel later that the comp is failing your daughter. But my instinct is you might find the comp to be more understanding about her condition and willing to help her to achieve her potential.
Jed
I too think your daughter wasn't fairly treated but I would tread carefully before deciding to move or disrupt her.
Although our daughter doesn't have the medical problems, her case has parallels - she scored 116, was considered a "cert" for passing, achieved three level 5s in her SATs and is now going to the good comp across the border with a thriving G&T programme and rave parent reviews (I wonder whether it's the same one?!).
She's currently feeling good about herself after the upset of the 11 plus. We didn't appeal, but even if we had I think the 12+ is risky and a distraction from the start of secondary. But I do understand that it's a necessary evil for those who aren't lucky enough to have good second option and believe their children's education will suffer.
Our elder daughter is in grammar but also has friends in the comp. Like for like, I think most have achieved similarly although the grammar does boost some subjects. Having said that grammar results look very good because they don't have any special needs or below average pupils (and they also throw some out who don't make the grade at GCSE or AS!), so you have to be careful when comparing exam tables.
I would make the 12+/13+ a last resort if you feel later that the comp is failing your daughter. But my instinct is you might find the comp to be more understanding about her condition and willing to help her to achieve her potential.
Jed
