11 Plus Exams Forum

I know nobody can give a definitive answer on this, but would be keen to draw on people's experiences.

My daughter is 7 and has just gone into Y2. She is within (for various reasons) a very weak cohort within a state school - so I am conscious that her achievements may seem greater than they actually are compared with her current peers. According to her teachers, she is working "at greater depth" across all subjects.

My gut feel is that her reading and comprehension are excellent - she has been reading since she was 3 years old - her writing is very good, and her maths is OK. She is still top of the class in Maths (knows all her times tables - but this is more an excellent memory thing than a facility with numbers), but still struggles with some mathematical concepts which I would expect to be familiar by now.

She is dreadful at jigsaw puzzles and I'm expecting any non-verbal reasoning to be poor.

We are not averse to having her tutored, but realistically, what are our chances? We are Aylesbury, so well within the catchment of local schools.

I totally appreciate this is very early days - but interested to see what other people's experiences are of a "greater depth" child at Y2 maintaining this.

What age did you start tutoring?

Hi. We chose not to tutor. I am of the mind that if a child is bright, they will get through without needing to be tutored (certainly not from age 7). Some familiarisation of the question types is helpful, so we did those at home. Eldest son passed with a very good mark indeed. Second child yet to find out. Most kids who we know that had tutoring began the year leading up to the exam. It can be quite intensive. You might want to consider whether you would really want to dedicate more than a year to it. At the end of the day it is x2 45 min tests...more than a year of full on practise may feel repetitive/excessive/boring to the child.

Not to dampen the shine on your little one, but please do bear in mind that a lot changes from age 7. There are only three or four categories of working (I think), so many children achieve Greater Depth in something or other if they are above the national average (which is lower than the level required to qualify in the 11+). I wouldn't read too much into that TBH (sorry - not meaning to belittle her achievement - just being honest). I used to go into school and help the little ones with reading. I can honestly say I have seen kids at both ends of the spectrum (those who were strong readers in KS1, versus those who required remedial help) balance out magnificently by the time they reached YR6! There was one girl who was literally on the very bottom level behind her peers in one of my son's classes - who by Yr5 was an amazing reader and the one achieving the top mark in the 180 odd word Yr5 spelling test. My eldest son was one of the strongest readers in his class, with a reading age three to four years beyond his actual age (which was almost double in his younger years!)...yet his peers pretty much caught him up by Yr6 to be honest. He probably had a bit of an edge...but not such a massive gap.

My personal view would be, that at 7, just let her be! Book a tutor when she hits 10 if you think she needs one...let her enjoy an 11+ free life until then! Just my view though - bear in mind that we didn't opt for a tutor, and most folk on here will have done, so perhaps not a typical view.

Thank you for your kind response. Yes, I fully expect her to "level out" with her maths at the very least. I think she is ahead currently because we encourage her at home - workbooks in the holidays (nothing huge, maybe 10 minutes 3 times a week!), helping her learn her times tables etc. but I can already tell that she finds maths trickier, so I was wondering if early tutoring might head off that issue, if it helps her get a bit further ahead and/or more secure with concepts. We have the Doodle Maths app, which she enjoys doing, so that might be helpful too.

She is very similar to how I was as a child - conscientious, with a gift for literature and SPAG, but pretty hopeless at visual puzzles, and better-than-average but not brilliant at maths.

Looking at state schools - what percentage of pupils would you say pass the 11 plus in your experience?

I'm glad you took my comment in the tone it was intended. I was a little worried you may take offence.

I am not the best person to ask about percentages - there are a truck load of people on here with far more experience than I that can give a better answer. People tend to say they cream off the top third or so. From my understanding of how the marks are standardised, it is pretty much dictated by how many grammar school places are available. There is no point setting an exam where 5000 kids qualify...if there are only 3000 places. So they do some jiggery pokery magic with the results and adjust to ensure that around the correct amount of students qualify (a very basic description - it is probably far more complex than I have described). Based on the population of Bucks, it seems to be around the top 30%, but bear in mind that over recent years there has been a massive increase in students from outside of Bucks (OOA, Out Of Area) who apply...so then this distorts the balancing jiggery pokery, as there may be many more that qualify than places...and many who qualify but never accept the places because they were too far away to begin with.

I don't think anyone at all would disagree that a child who reads is more likely to do well. But you can't really force them. My first was an avid reader. My youngest will still be reading Wimpy Kid as an adult it feels! The fact that your little one is keen to read/reads well will help a lot. (Personal view bit coming up here)...but...make sure she is still enjoying it. Don't force her for the sake of the test. If she has a few days/weeks/months where she would rather bounce on the trampoline/pretend she is a fairy/dinosaur...let her explore that. Readers come back when it suits them!

With a parent who is taking an interest in her education to such levels, I am sure she will achieve to the best of her abilities. (Personal bit approaching again!)...just try not to get tooooo caught up in the whole 11+ crazy saga. It isn't actually the end of the world if they don't go to grammar! I remind my sons that I didn't go to a grammar school, yet still achieved a post graduate degree at Cambridge. Their life isn't over if they don't make it to grammar...so it can be a shame to spend a large proportion of their time doing tutor work in the years approaching the exam.

Best wishes for whatever you decide!

I wouldn't advise children being tutored until the year they sit the exam. I think realistically you need to do some preparation because the questions are "reasoning" type questions and not similar to the more straightforward types of questions they will see at school. However, I personally think too many months of revision is onerous and counter productive.
The very best thing to do (whether taking 11+ or not) is to encourage them to read, but not to read what you think they should be reading - find out what they actually like. Not all kids enjoy Harry Potter! And don't knock memorising times tables - that's the way to do it!

If I take my son for example, when he was in year 2 he was average at best! In the space of 2 years though he really took off and is now at Aylesbury Grammar school. The children who I thought would pass (when in year 2) didn't. Children really develop at different ages.
All I would suggest at this age is to create a love of reading for pleasure. The more they read, the better their vocabulary becomes. This will help with spelling, imagination to write their own stories and then at the end of year 4 begin familiarisation of the question types.
HTH.