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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:26 pm
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Hi,
our son is in Year 4 now and we are living in Harrow which is around 15 miles away(straight line distance) from Dr Challoner's school for boys. We want to target this school but we own a house in Harrow and would not want to sell it. we are happy to buy another house in catchment area of Dr Challoners grammar schools for boys. I have heard the requirement is you need to sell the house if you have moved to the catchment area. is there any other option ?

Thanks for your help in advanced.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
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Location: Essex
The admissions policy for 2021 (i.e. for boys currently in year 5) currently out for consultation is here:
https://dcgs.box.com/s/v8vm2lwpep1cqv0u55l25wkgtwmh63ql

I haven't looked at the current policy to see what the changes are, but under the intended policy, boys living in catchment, but not a sibling of a pupil in years 7 - 12, or qualifying for Free School Meals, would be ranked under criterion 5.

Furthermore, the paragraph relating to place of residence states:

5. Normal Home Address

a) In order to qualify for admission under rules referring to the school’s catchment area, the applicant must
have been resident at their home address continuously since April 1st of the year preceding proposed admission (for admission in September 2021 this is April 1st 2020)
b) If a parent of the applicant student still owns a property within 20 miles of the school which has been the main family home more recently than September 1st 2017 (ie 4 years before the proposed date of admission), a property closer to the school will not be accepted as the basis for a legitimate residence qualification even if the former property is leased to a third party, or has been sold to a company of which parent(s) are a director. For the purposes of this policy a parent of an applicant is defined as a parent with whom the applicant student resides for at least three nights of the school week (Sunday to Thursday inclusive).
c) The school may require additional evidence of ‘residence qualification’ if there are reasons for casting
doubt on the accuracy or completeness of an application.
d) Where Service families or other Crown Servants who often move within the UK and from abroad, are posted to the area, we will allocate a place in advance of the family move if an official government letteris provided declaring a relocation date and an intended address. Evidence must be provided by January 30th 2021 in order to be included in the first allocation round.


For 2022 entry, the relevant dates would presumably be April 2021 and September 2018, although there would still be time for further changes to be made to the policy before then, as it would not need to be determined until the end of February 2021.

Your 'other option', apart from selling up 'cleanly', would appear to be to stay put and hope that if your DS qualifies, allocation of places gets as far as the final 'any other applicants' category and as far out as your address is? There is historical admissions data on the forum, derived, I believe, from the Bucks CC website.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:45 pm
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Yes, you would need to sell your house & move (permanently) by April 2021. You would not gain admission from Harrow, you can find the allocation distances on the BCC website. I thought from your previous post that QE was your target school? If you want DCGS you will need to commit to it, and accept one of the local Upper Schools if he does not get a place.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:46 am 
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Location: Essex
If you genuinely want a reasonable chance of DCGS but also want to be a landlord (have never seen the attraction myself, but I appreciate that some do), sell up now, buy somewhere completely different on a BTL mortgage (Milton Keynes?) and rent it out straightaway (so no question of it ever having been the family home), buy / rent somewhere solidly in catchment for DCGS and move your DS to a local primary school. People do choose / have to move house all the time for perfectly legitimate reasons; admissions authorities, for some reason, tend to get a bit suspicious of moves which only coincide with the application for a particularly desirable school. Presumably, DCGS has reason to be more suspicious than many, hence their early date 'to be considered in catchment by'.

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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.Groucho Marx


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:26 pm
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Thank you so much for your replies. I completely understand my situation now. just was wondering - If we buy another house in the catchment area and live there, would it be ok if I do not sell my current Harrow house ? your help is highly appreciated.

Cheers,


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:28 pm 
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edgwareuser wrote:
Thank you so much for your replies. I completely understand my situation now. just was wondering - If we buy another house in the catchment area and live there, would it be ok if I do not sell my current Harrow house ? your help is highly appreciated.

Cheers,


I think if you read this then the answer is No. Still owning the previous property (with the potential to move back) is the very reason that they put this in the regulations

Quote:
If a parent of the applicant student still owns a property within 20 miles of the school which has been the main family home more recently than September 1st 2017 (ie 4 years before the proposed date of admission), a property closer to the school will not be accepted as the basis for a legitimate residence qualification even if the former property is leased to a third party, or has been sold to a company of which parent(s) are a director. For the purposes of this policy a parent of an applicant is defined as a parent with whom the applicant student resides for at least three nights of the school week (Sunday to Thursday inclusive).


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:41 am
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Location: Essex
hermanmunster wrote:
edgwareuser wrote:
Thank you so much for your replies. I completely understand my situation now. just was wondering - If we buy another house in the catchment area and live there, would it be ok if I do not sell my current Harrow house ? your help is highly appreciated.

Cheers,


I think if you read this then the answer is No. Still owning the previous property (with the potential to move back) is the very reason that they put this in the regulations

Quote:
If a parent of the applicant student still owns a property within 20 miles of the school which has been the main family home more recently than September 1st 2017 (ie 4 years before the proposed date of admission), a property closer to the school will not be accepted as the basis for a legitimate residence qualification even if the former property is leased to a third party, or has been sold to a company of which parent(s) are a director. For the purposes of this policy a parent of an applicant is defined as a parent with whom the applicant student resides for at least three nights of the school week (Sunday to Thursday inclusive).


Interesting, the bit about not selling to company of which a parent is a director- not something I've seen elsewhere. Must be a particular problem in the schools area?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Sounds like a legal loophole, closed...!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:42 pm
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How can the school discriminate against owning another property?

As long as the family lives in catchment for 1+ years how does it matter whether they own property elsewhere?

I wonder whether this can stand in court.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:52 pm 
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jxp wrote:
How can the school discriminate against owning another property?

As long as the family lives in catchment for 1+ years how does it matter whether they own property elsewhere?

I wonder whether this can stand in court.


I think it is case of still owning a property that they could move back to after a place is given at the school - hence the arbitrary distance of 20 miles. They have no doubt had cases of people selling the family home to their own company, moving into a flat near the school, and then moving back to the house after a decent interval. Clearly never intending to make the move for the whole family at all, if the old house is 50 or 100 miles away then then move is much more of a commitment for the family


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