When Primary schools will receive the 11 Plus results?

[sparklies]

Thanks Etienne for your advice on this thread!

For OOC reviews, in the absence of HT recommendations, is there any guidance on what could be used instead? Obviously Y5 reports, but would a letter from the HT and/or an educational psychologist report (particularly if the child has SEN) be worthwhile?

[Etienne]

Thanks Etienne for your advice on this thread!
For OOC reviews, in the absence of HT recommendations, is there any guidance on what could be used instead? Obviously Y5 reports, but would a letter from the HT and/or an educational psychologist report (particularly if the child has SEN) be worthwhile?

Hi sparklies

There's no official guidance, but I can offer an opinion.

Obviously Y5 reports

Yes.

a letter from the HT

Yes, this is important (assuming the head will co-operate), but it must not turn into a character reference (common mistake!). The focus needs to be on academic ability - is the child not just above average, but well above average?

• • • Attainment at the end of Y5 should ideally be 'greater depth' in maths, reading and writing.

• • • Predictions for the end of KS2 of a standard of 111-120 in maths & reading, and 'greater depth' in writing.

• • • • If there is a sudden jump from EXS (expected level) in Y5 to a prediction of 111-120 or greater depth at KS2, this really needs to be justified by the school (e.g. “greater maturity,” “recent rapid progress”), or it is unlikely to be believed.

• • • A progress chart from Y2 to Y5 showing 'greater depth' each year in maths, reading and writing.

• • • • One or two 'expected levels' in Y2-Y4 might not matter too much, but panels do like to see a history of consistent high achievement.

• • • Other evidence as suggested for appeals – see B11 - https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... cation#b11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

• • • • Note: B11 (i) does not apply to Bucks selection reviews – school work will not be considered.

• • • Confirmation by the headteacher that the school was aware of any extenuating circumstances, and that these could have affected the test result.

• • • • (I'm not entirely convinced extenuating circumstances are needed if the score is very close to 121, but review guidelines do state: “the SRP will normally expect there to be strong evidence of both high academic ability and exceptional reasons for underperformance in the tests”.)

I'm afraid some out of county heads may refuse to co-operate with any procedure related to selective education either because they are philosophically opposed, or because they do not know the academic standard required for a Bucks grammar school - but I don't believe they can decline to provide factual information available in their school records, e.g. a progress chart from Y2 to Y5 showing attainment each year in maths, reading and writing.

an educational psychologist report (particularly if the child has SEN)

If it supports the case, and can be afforded - yes.
See B11 (h) - https://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk/appea ... cation#b11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Louey]

Etienne - out of interest - do headteachers of OOC schools also send recommendations to Admissions before results come out? They obviously know which children have taken it because they have to sign a form which we take to the test.

Hi Louey

If an out of county school opts to become a Bucks partner school, then yes, it is treated in exactly the same way as a Bucks primary.

If it's a non-partner school, it didn't use to submit recommendations in advance of the results - but I don't know whether this has changed in the last year or two.

Thanks Etienne - not it's not a partner school.

[Louey]

Thanks Etienne for your advice on this thread!

For OOC reviews, in the absence of HT recommendations, is there any guidance on what could be used instead? Obviously Y5 reports, but would a letter from the HT and/or an educational psychologist report (particularly if the child has SEN) be worthwhile?

Hi Sparklies - I remember your name from the last time I went through this, when we were agonising about allocation distances

[sparklies]

Thank you so much Etienne, that's all really useful! I'm hoping very much it won't come to it, but it's quite borderline unfortunately!

He's diagnosed ASD and ADHD, but academically very smart. He's "working above" in every report going back for the main subjects, particularly in maths and reading where there are lots of very strong statements in his reports we could use. Unfortunately, when we asked his OOC teachers for support in applying for extra time, as they are inexperienced with putting children in for exams (and had not spent much time with him in person due to Covid), they said he would just breeze the 11+ and felt there was nothing they could write to justify extra time given he was "so smart already". We only found out in the summer when he sat his first in-person mock (so too late to apply for extra time) that while he is extremely accurate with his answers, the way his brain works means he takes a lot longer with each question and he struggles with the concept of taking a "best guess" and moving on quickly.

He sat several mocks in the end (given the exam format itself is his weakness), and while we all know that most of the children at these have been tutored, it's still very worrying that he was still coming out in the bottom 10-15th percentile of the peer group each time and getting very low scores. Usually a third to half the questions were skipped, not even guessed. We spent a frantic few months trying to coach him on exam technique but he really struggled to improve even though he was trying very hard. Time-controlled problem-solving is just not compatible with how he needs to work at his current level of maturity.

This is why I'm thinking an educational psychologist report would come in handy - though are we going to struggle to get hold of one if we wait for results day? I'm wondering if we should pre-emptively book one anyway; if nothing else, the report might be useful for his teachers wherever he ends up given his SEN.

Sadly no extenuating circumstances other than he should have had that extra time! The school is very supportive of appeals, but not really experienced in what to write, so it will probably be a bit of a minefield in trying to gently steer them to focus on the right, academic things without them thinking I'm trying to show them how to do their jobs!

We are just hoping against hope that all this worry is for nothing. He said he thought he had done well in the exam, but we asked him that for one of his mocks and he said the same, and it was the worst of the lot so he's not the best judge of his performance!!

[sparklies]

Thanks Etienne for your advice on this thread!

For OOC reviews, in the absence of HT recommendations, is there any guidance on what could be used instead? Obviously Y5 reports, but would a letter from the HT and/or an educational psychologist report (particularly if the child has SEN) be worthwhile?

Hi Sparklies - I remember your name from the last time I went through this, when we were agonising about allocation distances

I remember your name too! Can't believe we're here again - this is my third time around, and I still have one more child to go after this one - glutton for punishment!!

At least distance isn't an issue this time

[Etienne]

they said he would just breeze the 11+ and felt there was nothing they could write to justify extra time given he was "so smart already".

Hi sparklies

We limit discussion on the Bucks forum to procedural matters, so I'm afraid I can't go into individual cases on here (you would need to start a thread over on the Appeals forum), but I will say that I've come across many cases of bright children with special needs who get overlooked because they are perceived to be 'coping'.

This is why I'm thinking an educational psychologist report would come in handy - though are we going to struggle to get hold of one if we wait for results day?

My recollection of the procedure is that you are given 2 or 3 weeks from the date of the result in which to submit a review request.

it will probably be a bit of a minefield in trying to gently steer them to focus on the right, academic things without them thinking I'm trying to show them how to do their jobs!

A test of extreme diplomacy! - but it would help if they use the same form as Bucks headteachers.
Because of the way it's structured, the focus is drawn to what really matters.
(I'm not sure what the procedure is for non-partner schools, but if it becomes obvious to you that your head doesn't have the form, let me know and we ought to be able to get you a copy from somewhere. Then you could hand it over to the school, saying "Would you mind filling this in?".)

We are just hoping against hope that all this worry is for nothing.

Fingers crossed!

[sparklies]

Hi Etienne,

Thank you, and understood! Being bright with SEN but appearing to "cope" so getting overlooked is such a common theme, not just my children, but many of my friends' children too.

I do suspect they won't have the form. They are a lovely, supportive school (which is why he has thrived there - we got so lucky!) but even though 3-4 children a year (30 intake) do the 11+, and most pass, it's very much considered to be beyond their scope, which is fair enough as they are a Herts school after all!

That's very kind of you to offer to see if you can get hold of a copy of the form if it's needed - really appreciate that! Hopefully he'll scrape through...

[Louey]

Thanks Etienne for your advice on this thread!

For OOC reviews, in the absence of HT recommendations, is there any guidance on what could be used instead? Obviously Y5 reports, but would a letter from the HT and/or an educational psychologist report (particularly if the child has SEN) be worthwhile?

Hi Sparklies - I remember your name from the last time I went through this, when we were agonising about allocation distances

I remember your name too! Can't believe we're here again - this is my third time around, and I still have one more child to go after this one - glutton for punishment!!

At least distance isn't an issue this time

Oh I don't envy you having another one to come. This is my last child to go through this, but it is also the only chance I have to get 2 of my 3 children in the same school. Otherwise I will again be dealing with 3 different schools. At least he will get in on sibling link if he qualifies. He thinks he did as well as he could have done on the day and he's definitely very able but he was also very up and down when did mocks.

The days seem to be dragging now. Just want it to be over!