Why are some schools/teachers opposed to selective education

pippi · Post by **pippi** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:42 pm

Well, personally I don't think you really need to look too deeply at CVA's, Ofsted reports, FSMs and so on. I think you just have to look at the tests. I really couldn't put it better than you did:

Guest55 wrote:I've posted many times that I ignore the VR score and look at Y6 NC test marks!!

Not exactly a ringing endorsement of a system that uses VR to select.

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:05 pm

You take this totally out of context!

I do ignore VR scores but those are mostly > 121 so the child has qualified for a GS place. The KS2 levels are level 4 or level 5 - 3 level 5s and 121 is likely to do better than 3 level 4s and 141 ...

You clearly don't like to be challenged on your viewpoint

Post by **mad?** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:07 pm

Guest55 wrote:
You clearly don't like to be challenged on your viewpoint

I don't think pippi is alone in this!

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:13 pm

Yes - point taken if that is a dig at me [you could say this about almost anyone, especially a few I could name] - but I do try to back my views up with up-to-date evidence and do not quote out of context!

Post by **mad?** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 9:33 pm

yoyo123 · Post by **yoyo123** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:12 am

but you have to take into account thnat Guest 55 is a MATHS teacher, VR may not be the best indicator of ability in her subject.
GS teachers in another authority as in Kent would have a maths score to go on.

The KS2 maths results are also referring to the child's level in May a lot later than the 11+ tests.

pippi · Post by **pippi** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:04 pm

yoyo123 wrote:but you have to take into account thnat Guest 55 is a MATHS teacher

Thanks for the heads-up - I'll try to bear that in mind.

What you say seems consistent with the Nfer research posted earlier - ie that VR on its own isn't a reliable measure of a child's overall relative ability, and that in any case this isn't fixed over time, particularly at this age. After all, KS2 isn't that much later than the 11+ tests.

Bucks' reliance on the 21-type VR test still puzzles me - maybe they signed a long-term (~50 year!) contract with Nfer? Has the test format ever changed?

Guest55 · Post by **Guest55** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:39 pm

Yes - they used to have three tests, the 'worst score' was discarded and the other two averaged out - still VR though!

I would very much welcome a NVR paper ...