extent of 11+ competition

[jacksmum]

It seems that some children gained grammar school places this year including the super selectives despite scoring very low in the English paper.

Jacksmum - All of the children sat the same paper so, for the children who scored low, I believe this has no relevance as it does not highlight their English capability. The English paper, it seems, was much harder this year. If the papers were all easy, it would be very hard for the CSSE to separate the scores.

I have not seen the English paper - but I know that English was my DS worst paper before the exam. He scored over 50% in this paper - despite that fact that he did not find the past English papers easy and the paper this year was hard (according to other users of this forum).

We cannot escape the fact that some children are tutored for a very long time before the exam, and if these children are tutored for a particular format - and then that format is changed - they are possibly more likely to be put off on the day of the exam and, therefore, possibly score low. So; not necerssarily a relevance on their English capabilty, but you would expect a child with a natural ability in English to be able to cope with this format change. I am not saying the papers should be easy.

I agree with Chelmsford mum that there is not enough information readily available regarding the 11+, and if your DC go to a state school where the 11+ is not encouraged, they will be disadvantaged.

[First-timer]

It is very competitive as there are too few places. There must be many children who miss out who would be well suited to Grammar.

I agree that the playing field could be levelled by making the exam less predictable and having an "opt out" system rather than the current "opt in" one.

I do think, though, that what is being tested isn't just natural ability. It's also about how supportive a GS family you are going to be. Those who facilitate their children's education at this point are probably more likely to keep doing so throughout their education. It's not what GS was set up for but I think that's what it has come to. I say this as someone who wasn't as switched on as other parents. My DS had a lot less prep than most and I'm eternally grateful that I'm not now wishing I had found out about the exam earlier. The Essex exam is so exacting that the vast majority of children will need some tuition (at home or otherwise) beforehand.

Those of us lumbered with an unsupportive state primary school face an uphill struggle as compared to those using schools in the private sector. So too do those who either cannot home tutor or afford to have someone else tutor their DC. It's not fair. Very little is. Tutoring for the exam is a fact of life and it isn't going to go away. I can think of no other situation where prospective examination candidates would be criticised for preparing too well. While a Grammar place remains a prize worth winning, parents will continue to try to give their DC every possible chance in securing their place.

[SEP18]

I do think, though, that what is being tested isn't just natural ability. It's also about how supportive a GS family you are going to be. Those who facilitate their children's education at this point are probably more likely to keep doing so throughout their education. The Essex exam is so exacting that the vast majority of children will need some tuition (at home or otherwise) beforehand.

I agree First-timer with your comments. You do need to support your DC through their tutoring and the whole 11+ preparation in order for them to stand a chance to pass. I know of a parent who put their DS through the test this year. He had had no tutoring, I did recommend that he should have some and she replied "If he passes, then he passes. But if he doesn't then he will go to the local comp", said in a very matter of fact way. I don't think they were bothered either way.

The 11+ is a lottery. If your DC does well and is well prepared then they win. If they have a bad day, then fate takes over. As a parent, I know that I did prepare my DS for the 11+ and if it wasn't mean't to be, then it wouldn't have happened. Life is too short to look at the what if's.

[Hamburg86]

I have found two major issues with the eleven plus process:

Information is not readily available, especially the format of the Essex exam. I was not aware that the exam is so different to the level children usually do at primary school (even at the highest level). We therefore were quite late to find a good tutor. I am also very grateful to have stumbled across this forum and for the advice I received either directly or by reading old posts especially concerning the sort of material we should use for practise.

As the places in Essex are so competitive, children are mostly tutored well in advance (we 'only' did a year but apparently a lot of children do a minimum of two years). This must have a knock on effect so that the exam becomes more and more difficult, which in turn means that children need to work even harder to prepare and be tutored more intensely etc etc.

In other words it appears to be an upwards spiral with each year requiring more preparation and probably more money spent on materials and tutoring. I cannot see a solution other than making the exam more unpredictable and maybe a duty for primary schools to be more proactive in informing parents of children who they deem suitable for grammar schools.

[inmystride]

I'm not sure it's true that the 11+ exam get's harder and harder every year. But I agree that some schools aren't providing as much information about the exams as they could.

[kaynor]

Why do primary schools not use their gifted and talented obligations to promote the 11+ to help level the playing field. From my experience they appear to just play lip service and focus on the schools overall SATs scores. Is this another case of not wanting to be seen as promoting elitism and political correctness?

[Hopefuldad]

Hi
You all are making absolutely valid points.
For me , you have to prepare for it. My DD was completely thrown by the english paper but fortunately she had enough composure to scrape in.

Here is an alternative thought, rather than making papers difficult, you administer the test on a random date. The kids get tested in their own school, all at the same time but on an un anounced day. So nobody knows when the test is, last minute prep would be elliminated and any child suffering from a nervous disposition would have an equal chance.

[rastacat]

This is a very emotive issue and am not sure what ideal solution is. It does seem that the levels of attainment for essex grammars is so high that tutoring is inevitable. Whilst the consortium maintain that the 11+ curriculum is closely allied to KS2, we all know that is not true, especially if one is looking to achieve the benchmark 80%+ passmark for Essex superselectives. Furthermore my children have never undertaken VR as part of their day to day schooling so not sure where this fits in KS2. I have hard that some private schools routinely incorporate VR, but not sure if this is one of those myths.

Regarding Maths - it would appear that in some previous years the 11+ maths sylabus was extended beyond KS2, probably more akin to year 7 maths; therefore tutoring is essential as even gifted mathematicians cannot know what they haven't been taught ( I am thinking algebra here). We did tutor DS and did advance his Maths possibly beyond the level it needed to be to perform well in this year's paper (which was probably closer in feel to a KS2 SATS paper). One of the dowsnsides of this is that he will have been bored and unchallenged in the last year of Maths lessons at school, and by the time he goes to GS in September, may well have forgotten all the advanced stuff, as it will have been almost a year since he used it !

Regarding English: Again the format of the exam and nature of the text has been so radically different from KS2 that some extensive familiarisation will have been required, though not, I believe to the extent of the Maths. In terms of the grammar elements, discussion on this forums have indicated that there is some variance as to how much and how well this is taught in primary schools. My DS is currently working on punctuating direct speech. It is being well taught but 11+ candidates need this stuff in year 5 not year 6. We taught it to him thoroughly a year ago with the result he is bored rigid with it now. Even if good primaries do teach the skill set for 11+, they are working to different time scales.

In my humble opinion, we need to find a way for selective school entrance requirements to be more closely aligned to the KS2 curriculum or for primary schools to be able to advance beyond KS2 to support their gifted and talented pupils. Let's face it, all primary schools are probably able to reliably identify those DCs that are best suited to GS. Can you imagine how it would be if universities stopped using A levels as matriculation benchmark, but came up instead with some other one off test requiring some spurious tangental curriculum (I know Oxbridge do have entrance exam, but at least there is an interview and school references !) that only those in the know and with deep pockets could gain access to? It wouldn't work !

[dutchy005]

Prep schools start on basic VR in year 3 with one lesson a week gradually building up untiil, in the lead-up to the 11 plus, they are being tested under exam conditions in all papers using past papers or realistic replicas weekly.

By the end of year 5 the more able are at least a year ahead in both English and Maths so that year 7 work can be more or less completed in time for 11 plus and common entrance.

The DCs are prepared for a whole range of selection tests including for the local indies and some that are further away. This gives the DCs a good tool-box of experience in case the CSSE suddenly changes the format. Despite this many parents also top this up with private tutoring.

Just to compound it, the prep-schools in Southend confer in-borough status on DCs even if they live well out of area in places where they would stand no chance of gaining a place in an in-borough primary school.

At CRGS over a third of boys come from prep schools despite only 7% of all children being privately educated.

Priviledge and advantage are not and probably never will be myths I'm afraid!

[inmystride]

"At CRGS over a third of boys come from prep schools despite only 7% of all children being privately educated. "

As far as I am aware, only four students from my DS's State school sat the 11+. I imagine many more prep students sat, which would result in a higher proportion gaining a place.