Interpretation of scores

[kaynor]

piemom - yes another unknown although don't know if that will make a huge difference.

The exam has not been made easier this year just because the children are younger. As happens every year you tend to get the parents posting who have the higher marks, it gives the impression that marks are generally higher.

I actually think the 2 months difference will play it's part. This year the DC arrived back from the summer holidays straight into the exam. In previous years they have had another 2 months development in year 6 with their 11+ study peaking by the end of November. How many DC were able to peak just after the summer holidays? How were even younger 10 year olds able to cope with the intensity? We shall see.

Remember a 1% drop in the average mark can represent about 2 points.

[Setanta]

piemom - yes another unknown although don't know if that will make a huge difference.

The exam has not been made easier this year just because the children are younger. As happens every year you tend to get the parents posting who have the higher marks, it gives the impression that marks are generally higher.

I actually think the 2 months difference will play it's part. This year the DC arrived back from the summer holidays straight into the exam. In previous years they have had another 2 months development in year 6 with their 11+ study peaking by the end of November. How many DC were able to peak just after the summer holidays? How were even younger 10 year olds able to cope with the intensity? We shall see.

Remember a 1% drop in the average mark can represent about 2 points.

The difficulty of the exam doesn't make any difference in that the students are ranked against each other. That's what the standardisation process does.

The exam being in September rather than November will make a subtle socialogical difference I believe, but not one easily tracked and measured. It will (relatively) benefit those students more driven by their parents ambitions and ability to afford tutors over the summer versus the student being driven by the school. So the controversial "middle class pushy parents" effect will be exacerbated.

[No personal digs on this one please. I am a MCPP myself but have enough experience of Indie/Grammar/"Bog standard" and "Sink" schools to see the patterns].

[coolmum2011]

does this mean age of a child plays a role in 11 plus in Essex ?

[Setanta]

does this mean age of a child plays a role in 11 plus in Essex ?

No. Other 11+ regions adjust for age. Essex doesn't. Arguable slight advantage for Autumn birthdays. Middle Class Pushy Parents planning to live in Essex during their childs secondary education need to plan conception for late January and move to Chelmsford/Colchester/Southend once the KS1 Sats for DC are in.

DOB also important for parents who see DC as prospective professional sports people - see Malcolm Gladwells book "Outliers".

[kaynor]

piemom - yes another unknown although don't know if that will make a huge difference.

The exam has not been made easier this year just because the children are younger. As happens every year you tend to get the parents posting who have the higher marks, it gives the impression that marks are generally higher.

I actually think the 2 months difference will play it's part. This year the DC arrived back from the summer holidays straight into the exam. In previous years they have had another 2 months development in year 6 with their 11+ study peaking by the end of November. How many DC were able to peak just after the summer holidays? How were even younger 10 year olds able to cope with the intensity? We shall see.

Remember a 1% drop in the average mark can represent about 2 points.

The difficulty of the exam doesn't make any difference in that the students are ranked against each other. That's what the standardisation process does.

The exam being in September rather than November will make a subtle socialogical difference I believe, but not one easily tracked and measured. It will (relatively) benefit those students more driven by their parents ambitions and ability to afford tutors over the summer versus the student being driven by the school. So the controversial "middle class pushy parents" effect will be exacerbated.

[No personal digs on this one please. I am a MCPP myself but have enough experience of Indie/Grammar/"Bog standard" and "Sink" schools to see the patterns].

Hi Setanta

Lets say the exam was the same standard of difficulty as last year. The DC are younger therefore the standardised point scores will likely be lower in relation to last years. I appreciate that within this years cohort they are standardised in relation to each other which is fine. So if a 325 got a place last year 323 may get a place this year. Of course it is clouded by the introduction of catchments as well.

[Setanta]

Kaynor. No that's not right.

They take the mean score for the test. They allocate 100 points to that. If it is an 'easy' test then the mark needed to get 100 points is higher. A harder test means that the mean score is lower.

So if our kids that took the test this September took the exact same test as the one last November (assuming they hadn't seen it beforehand). You would expect the mean score to be relatively lower. So the score that would get an individual student 100 points in English would be slightly lower. But we aren't comparing last Novembers kids with this Septembers. We are comparing this Septembers children and ranking them. So a child that scored exactly the mean score in English Maths and VR would get exactly 300 points.

[kaynor]

Kaynor. No that's not right.

They take the mean score for the test. They allocate 100 points to that. If it is an 'easy' test then the mark needed to get 100 points is higher. A harder test means that the mean score is lower.

So if our kids that took the test this September took the exact same test as the one last November (assuming they hadn't seen it beforehand). You would expect the mean score to be relatively lower. So the score that would get an individual student 100 points in English would be slightly lower. But we aren't comparing last Novembers kids with this Septembers. We are comparing this Septembers children and ranking them. So a child that scored exactly the mean score in English Maths and VR would get exactly 300 points.

Are they not quoting figures on the guidance sheet based on an average of the last 4 years? When they sat the test at an older age? If we turn the clock forwards 4 years and use that data for entry guidance, will it not possibly (all things being equal) be slightly lower eg 323 v 325 (before). I apologise if I have got the wrong end of the stick.

[moved]

No that won't be the case.

Time travel will help here and an assumption that whatever year the test was taken a child would do equally well.

Gloria scored in the top 5% of her cohort and had a standardised score of 375. We assume this score accurately indicates her ability within the group who took the test. She sat her test in January.

Time machine now.

Gloria took the same test later that year in November with exactly the same children, once again she was in the top 5% of her cohort and scored 375, as her score indicates her relative ability within the group.

All the standardised score gives is the position of a candidate within the group, not an exam mark.

[kaynor]

Ok thanks moved, think I get that. So the children sitting it younger makes no difference for their standardised score. You do have to sympathise though with the very young ones.....what an ordeal for them. Elsewhere they do use age standardisation as well I believe.

[moved]

I think it makes a bigger difference to the boys than the girls. I think the idea is that they have all had the same amount of schooling. I agree that it seems unkind, but then I still feel awful every time I see the poor little things walking into the school gates looking pale and terrified.