11 Plus Exams Forum

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Are the primary schools really to blame?

My DC primary school (not in Southend) did no prep towards the 11 plus. However, it did give them a fantastic education that meant as a DIY 11 plus parent we were able to access harder material quickly. Where is it going wrong in Southend?

I respect Dr Bevan for investigating the statistical data and being so open with his findings.

Blitz wrote:http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1085558 ... _/?ref=mry

Are the primary schools really to blame?

My DC primary school (not in Southend) did no prep towards the 11 plus. However, it did give them a fantastic education that meant as a DIY 11 plus parent we were able to access harder material quickly. Where is it going wrong in Southend?

1. 50% of score is VR which is not a part of the national curriculum.
2. Child needs to know all year 6 material in September.

There is a slim chance of passing if the child has not been tutored by parents or an outside source. Schools are mostly concerned with pushing the bottom half up to level 4's for SAT results to reach government targets. I don't blame them as they will do what they need to do to keep the "boss" off their backs.

I always scratch my head at the open evenings when the heads say parents shouldn't tutor their children. Have they seen how easy the work is for level 4 SATS compared to the Essex 11+ exams?

We are out of catchment in a fantastic primary that gets about 5 (out of 90) a year into the grammars, but you will not get any help from the school, it is up to the parents to give their child the tools to tackle the test.

The following paragraph was copied from the comments section below the article. I couldn't say it better myself!

Mr Bevan is right - something is profoundly wrong: the 11+ test that his school is using. Grammar schools claim to select on innate ability - by pointing the finger at everyone but himself he is just confirming that the test is hopelessley unfair for children that don't get intensive preparation. This is not the fault of the local primary schools - it is not their job to try to make up for the failings of Mr Bevan's test.

It will be interesting to see if the incatchment passes go up using the new exam format. Hopefully it will be more in tune with L5-6 National Curriculum.

TBH we were out of catchment so the fewer the incatchment passes the better it was for us.

I do think that unless you are a proactive parent and have a child that really wants to go to Grammar, the chances of gaining a place are slim. I have known many children who are top of their year group but want to go to the local school with their friends. They rarely pass as they don't have the drive and determination to succeed on the day. I have also known extremely able children who have had such little preparation (parents not knowing how the system works) that they don't stand a chance. Parents need to be told how the system works at the start of Yr 5, but state primaries seem afraid of promoting the 11 plus, eventhough the preparation will add value to their SATs results 9 months later.

My daughter went to a catholic primary school in Shoeburyness. The then head-teacher,

He forbade all teachers to even mention the eleven plus. He would not allow any information about the eleven plus to be asked in school at all.

Fortunately for us, her form-teacher was very understanding and worked with me to help my daughter. She would point out weaknesses she noticed, and I would then tutor my daughter.

I rarely post, but upon reading Dr Bevan's views, I agree with him, at least where my daughter's primary school, during her time there, is concerned.

pushymother wrote:

Blitz wrote:http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1085558 ... _/?ref=mry

Are the primary schools really to blame?

My DC primary school (not in Southend) did no prep towards the 11 plus. However, it did give them a fantastic education that meant as a DIY 11 plus parent we were able to access harder material quickly. Where is it going wrong in Southend?

1. 50% of score is VR which is not a part of the national curriculum.
2. Child needs to know all year 6 material in September.

There is a slim chance of passing if the child has not been tutored by parents or an outside source. Schools are mostly concerned with pushing the bottom half up to level 4's for SAT results to reach government targets. I don't blame them as they will do what they need to do to keep the "boss" off their backs.

I always scratch my head at the open evenings when the heads say parents shouldn't tutor their children. Have they seen how easy the work is for level 4 SATS compared to the Essex 11+ exams?

We are out of catchment in a fantastic primary that gets about 5 (out of 90) a year into the grammars, but you will not get any help from the school, it is up to the parents to give their child the tools to tackle the test.

The following paragraph was copied from the comments section below the article. I couldn't say it better myself!

Mr Bevan is right - something is profoundly wrong: the 11+ test that his school is using. Grammar schools claim to select on innate ability - by pointing the finger at everyone but himself he is just confirming that the test is hopelessley unfair for children that don't get intensive preparation. This is not the fault of the local primary schools - it is not their job to try to make up for the failings of Mr Bevan's test.

Hear hear! Very well put, completely agree with you.

We are also out of catchment at a very good (academically) primary school that gets approximately 8 - 12 children (out of 60) into grammars every year however, the school provides no assistance in this regard at all. It is all due to private tutoring or DIY tutoring by parents.

Like your school, ours tends to focus their energies on the children who are level 3 and level 4 in an attempt to get as many level 4s and level 5s as they can. They don't put too much effort into those who are already level 5 in year 5.

Perhaps Dr Bevan should rather lay the blame for the poor results of in catchment Southend children at the feet of the rhetoric spouted by the Heads at grammar school stating that tutoring for the 11+ is not necessary - just familiarisation with the format. This is, of course, ludicrous when one considers that 50% of the paper consisted of VR which was not taught at any state primaries. Add to that the fact that most children at state primary have never done a written exam in their lives, never mind one so arduous as the 11+ and it's not surprising that they aren't passing.

Perhaps that is why they have changed the format, so that it is more in line with what children at state primaries are taught and less about being tutored for VR.

I guess only time will tell.

At my children's school I asked before why they don't help with vr and was told not all the children want to take 11+ and as it isn't part of the curriculum then won't teach , lots of children who went to my daughters tutor group were at private schools and were doing lots of 11+ work at school aswell as attending tutoring so I guess that gives them a real advantage! Last month my daughters teacher called each child up who took 11+ and asked if they had been to a tutor if so how long ? And if not what prep work was done at home? She wrote it all down I was bit miffed when my daughter told me but now I believe it's to do with this year long investigation into why not many in southebd are passing! All the children at my daughters school who passed were tutored sadly there have been a few children who are same ability levels but parents assumed they didn't need tutoring and they didn't pass I believe the whole timing format ect... Made them miss out ! Quite sad as they are bright children! X

Students I know at prep schools are doing papers at school every day now in preparation for the private schools exams in January. One father told me that his dd had moved from Y8 in prep to Y9 at a local private school without him ever seeing her do any preparation at all. The school did everything for her. He did not lift a finger. He did not once do a paper with her or even see a paper she had done. DG

Daogroupie wrote:Students I know at prep schools are doing papers at school every day now in preparation for the private schools exams in January. One father told me that his dd had moved from Y8 in prep to Y9 at a local private school without him ever seeing her do any preparation at all. The school did everything for her. He did not lift a finger. He did not once do a paper with her or even see a paper she had done. DG

Exactly, that is the service one is buying when paying school fees. Yet those of us who are in the state system and pay for tutoring to try and keep up with private are the horrible ones.

God forbid you actually move house to get into a catchment area!

pushymother wrote:Yet those of us who are in the state system and pay for tutoring to try and keep up with private are the horrible ones.

God forbid you actually move house to get into a catchment area!

So true!

I can't tell you the number of snide comments I heard (from parents with children at local private schools) regarding "over tutored" children not doing well at grammar. My dd had 60 minutes of tutoring per week compared with some private schools who spend years (literally years) preparing the children for the 11+, they do hundreds of practice papers and they teach the 11+ as part of the curriculum.

Somehow they felt that I'm part of the "over tutoring" problem for daring to give my child private tuition for an exam which is not part of the national curriculum and therefore not taught at her school.

talea51 wrote:
So true!

I can't tell you the number of snide comments I heard (from parents with children at local private schools) regarding "over tutored" children not doing well at grammar. My dd had 60 minutes of tutoring per week compared with some private schools who spend years (literally years) preparing the children for the 11+, they do hundreds of practice papers and they teach the 11+ as part of the curriculum.

Somehow they felt that I'm part of the "over tutoring" problem for daring to give my child private tuition for an exam which is not part of the national curriculum and therefore not taught at her school.

Good to know it is not just me experiencing this phenomenon