KEGS - considering CEM?

[Minesatea]

How would CCHS know their candidates CSSE results in order to compare them? They have left the consortium, I cant see why the CSSE would hand over results to a non member school. Unless the prospective students were asked by the school, CCHS should not even know which girls had taken both exams!

[ToadMum]

Crossed posts!

Admittedly I was registering a DS rather than a DD, but I only remember the usual question re allowing the primary school to know the results, nothing about sharing with CCHS if appropriate. I also think someone has got in a bit of a muddle.

[Sundae21]

That really got my hackles raised.. the fact that CCHS weren't happy with this year's results!!!

Reading through the threads calmly, I think (hope) someone has got their wires crossed and confused the forthcoming CSSE changes (incorporating creative writing) with the new CEM exam.

On a very basic straw poll I get the impression that the vast majority who did well in the CSSE (ie over 340) also did sufficiently well in the CEM.

And yes, I agree with a previous poster, how on earth would CCHS know my daughter's CSSE 11+ score. The unique identifiers attached to each child for both exams, I guess, are forename, surname, address and date of birth. But that may well be all the information they need to cross reference...? I'd be very surprised if CSSE released the relevant data to CCHS and vice versa. It would be a very labour intensive cumbersome exercise to work it all out.

[talea51]

I haven't heard anything to indicate that KEGS are considering the CEM although a lot of schools have gone the CEM route (Kent started it last year, I believe, and Warks and Bucks have had CEM for a while now). I highly doubt that CCHS will be dropping CEM so soon after starting it.

As for comparing CSSE results and CEM results, this would seem like a very logical thing to do in my opinion. I feel that having the CSSE exams and the CEM exams presents a unique opportunity to compare the results and see how they correspond. However, in order to do this CCHS would have to request the data from CSSE and then they would have to analyse it and one year's worth of data would not be a representative sample upon which to base any conclusions. If I were doing this sort of comparison, I'd want a good few years worth of data to analyse.

I highly doubt that CCHS have the inclination nor the time nor the money to spend on such a comparison exercise. I do not know if CCHS has requested the information from CSSE and I do not know if CSSE would give them that information, I assume that the relevant parents would have had to agree to the data being shared and we certainly were not asked to do that.

I do wonder if perhaps it's someone getting confused with the new CSSE changes rather than CCHS changing.

[Blitz]

I've just listened to the Radio 4 programme 'Tutor Proof.' Just to add a new dimension to this debate, the CEM developer said that they were testing innate academic ability in order to allow more children from disadvantaged backgrounds(who probably had not been intensely tutored) to gain entry to Grammar Schools. Maybe if CCHS were disappointed in the CEM results it was because fewer girls from low income families (based on FSM data) had passed the test this year, rather than more.

The CSSE and CEM results had to show that different cohorts of girls passed each of the exams, otherwise why have two exams? If there was the same correlation of results, why bother to go to the time and expense of a new exam?

[pinkrabbit38]

Who told you that they weren't happy? That sounds like someone spreading rumours to be honest with you. When we went for the post results talk at CCHS the head said that they were very pleased with how the exams had gone. I think it very unlikely that they would be comparing the CEM result to scores in the CSSE exam, otherwise what was the point of moving away from CSSE- if they held those results in any great esteem they would not have spent the money to move to CEM.
Sorry this sounds like sour grapes from a parent of a child that did well in CSSE but didn't make the grade for CEM!

The parent who told me has a daughter starting at CCHS this year. I believe but can't be certain that the info came from a friend who teaches at the school.

I also think it quite likely that CCHS would want to compare their results with CSSE, they had their reasons for changing the exam and would want to know that their reasons were justified.

[pinkrabbit38]

Oh and don't shoot the messenger, I'm just passing on what I was told....

[Araucana girl]

Sorry didn't mean to come out fighting

I really find it hard to believe that they would be that bothered though; they have championed the CEM as being tutor proof as too many children were being over tutored with the CSSE exam. Surely even if the results were higher with the CSSE that would be irrelevant as it could be a child that has been intensively coached in that style of exam.

Anyway water under the bridge, one dd down, one very different sd to go

[tabasco]

Also I thought CCHS were now tied into a three year contract with CEM ! Don't think they would be thinking If changing yet, would not make sense without analysing several years results anyway.

Even if there is a contract, the school can still add additional components to their exam if they want to. The CEM could be their stage 1 follow by a stage 2 exam at a later date? HBS and TGS are two examples.