Morning everyone!

We'd really like to send our son to grammar school, specifically KEGS. (Schools in our area of north Essex are pretty uninspiring.) Trouble is, we live just outside the priority area. So he would need to do really well to get in.

We are finding it really hard to decide whether it's worth trying. How good a mark is 370+? What percentile does that represent? Roughly what raw mark might it represent on the papers themselves? And how might we tell whether our own son is likely to get that? We feel like we haven't much to go on. The termly tests his school do are terrible at distinguishing at the top end, so we just get a "greater than" score for his reading and maths ages and that's about it. If he were on track for that sort of score on the CSSE papers, what would you expect him to be scoring now (end of Year 4) on a Age 9-10 Bond maths assessment paper, for example? Can you suggest any other way of gauging his chances? Our school aren't much help as the teachers are universally anti-grammar on principle. (I do have some sympathy with that position, but...!)

Any thoughts much appreciated!

Take a look at the collated score threads that are stuck to the top there is a calculation link in there as well as the raw scores the boys are getting.

My understanding is that the boys grammars need pretty high scores to get into. Are you looking at CRGS too if you're in North essex? They don't have a catchment

I would say stay relaxed about it all, do a test paper or 2 and see where the weak spots are and work on them, some kids don't really do well at home but thrive on the day so it's always worth a shot

Thanks Proudmumregardless. Colchester would be too much of a trek for us. 1.5hr bus journey. Right now that doesn't feel like the right choice for us. I guess if DS got a score that wasn't high enough for KEGS OOC but looked enough for CRGS we would have some hard thinking to do last-minute. But it feels like KEGS or ... well, not nothing, but a "below average"-performing comprehensive.

Having delved a little further into forum threads I have a better picture now of what 370 represents in terms of raw scores and percentiles. Still struggling to know whether my son has what it takes, though. Not to beat around the bush, he has the right genes (we both went to Oxbridge and hubby in particular is very bright - got the highest starred first in Engineering for 30 years) - but we just don't have much to go on regarding his own abilities. There's only 20 in his year at school so not many to compare with. Perhaps someone who has a child who's attained that sort of score could give me some clue as to what their child was capable of at the end of Y4?

Thanks in anticipation!

Oh yikes that is a trek and don't blame you for not entertaining it

My daughter was in accelerated learning classes from day 1 at school she was always a year or 2 ahead of her peers across the board and did so with ease. So I'd say in year 4 if your ds is ahead of the game in some subjects then he stands a good chance of passing with minimal input from tutors. But that's just my experience

In the last year of the 3 paper exam, (2014 entry), DS2 got 378.962. In year 4, he had been selected to attend weekly after school maths sessions at WHSG along with a boy from another local primary (the Southend / Westcliff grammar schools are - or at least were, when our 3 were at primary school - pretty good with outreach stuff) and in year 5, attended actual maths lessons with one of the year 7 classes there. (When DD joined the school for 6th form, some of the girls remembered 'the boy in the red jumper who sat at the back of the class' ). However, he was a bit of an outlier at primary school and I think this both gave the school something to tick off on their NACE form and his teacher a bit of a rest. Also, DS2 was absolutely sure that nothing that he had done on the year 7 classes was necessary for the CSSE test.

DD, 2 years older, got 290.xx in the CSSE test, spent a year doing very well at a local 'failing' comp, passed an in-year test for SHSG and got 4A* 6A or their numerical equivalents (sat GCSEs in the year when only Maths and Englisg changed).

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I don’t know if it helps but my son scored 392.2 this year with raw scores of 56/60 maths and 50/60 English. It was age standardised so I guess that also affects the score. He is a December birthday. I know of other children who scored slightly lower on both tests a and got in the high 370’s. I guess it all depends on who takes the test and what scores they all get.

It's worth mentioning here that children don't necessarily progress in a linear fashion. Someone behind at the end of year 3 could be too of the class by year 6 (& vice versa). I do realise you are just looking for a ballpark/reassurance.

Hi Adstid,

I can only support you in your opinion that 1.5 hours commuting time is propably too much- and is exactly the main reason why KEGS did introduce their catchment area; they want the boys to participate in after-school activities and clubs, helping them to become the well-rounded students and grown-ups they are trying to educate. The commute can be stressful as you can imagine, with delays, noise and overcrowded buses and trains while also be potentially unsafe, depending on the route the boys have to take.
My boys at CRGS both go to school with boys from East London and they miss out on a quite a bit of after-school activities- or just socialising with their friends.

As with regards to your question of 370 points- first I believe this would be an excellent result and one that I would very much hope will secure a place for your son. There are no guarantees of course, but I would feel happy and confident if your boy is achieving this number.

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It is knowledge to know a tomato is botanically a fruit, it is wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad...

Hi adstid

My grandson scored 384.7 in the 2019 intake test and is inside the catchment. I believe that passing the 11+ and attaining a good score is as much to do with dedication and commitment as it is raw ability. Certainly you need 'brain power' - my GS had shown his raw ability from a young age; being an early reader and very early learner of his tables !!! He was well ahead of others in his class; certainly one year ahead and probably two. But, he was saying, "That's going to be my school", every time we passed KEGS from the age of 4 ...he already knew that it was the school the 'bright kids' go to. He worked hard to make sure that his wish came true. No child will breeze through the 11+ standard set at KEGS, and a child of lesser ability will have to work a lot harder than those with natural raw ability. I'd go further and say that, unless your child is showing strong signs of the required raw ability, only cramming and over tutoring will get him there, and that will only do him long term harm. Short of cramming and over tutoring, I imagine that, with suitable commitment and hard work, your son could make it. Good luck.