Scores on the doors 2009
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Chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Hi again,
I think that no one can deny that parents want the best for their kids and if I'm honest, if it was a choice between a TRULY struggling comp or a grammar, I would bus/train my children in, if funds allowed.However I know people who send children on very long journeys when there are very good grammar schools locally.
I do think it might be fairer if a small quota of places were set aside for Chelmsford children who 'passed' a la Southend and Surrey schools.My younger child more than passed for grammar schools further away than Chelmsford .We simply cant afford 300 pound + a term for the journey to Westcliff/Southend.Meanwhile children of more affluent households bus in to our local grammar.
I know this may sound like sour grapes and I don't mean it that way - really.Well done to those children who got to Chelmsford grammars.
I know that was a great achievement.As I said before older daughter is happy there.However I think a fairer system is possible without damaging anyone's chances of a grammar school education.
Also no one seems to have replied to other points.Perhaps too controversial for this thread
I think that no one can deny that parents want the best for their kids and if I'm honest, if it was a choice between a TRULY struggling comp or a grammar, I would bus/train my children in, if funds allowed.However I know people who send children on very long journeys when there are very good grammar schools locally.
I do think it might be fairer if a small quota of places were set aside for Chelmsford children who 'passed' a la Southend and Surrey schools.My younger child more than passed for grammar schools further away than Chelmsford .We simply cant afford 300 pound + a term for the journey to Westcliff/Southend.Meanwhile children of more affluent households bus in to our local grammar.
I know this may sound like sour grapes and I don't mean it that way - really.Well done to those children who got to Chelmsford grammars.
I know that was a great achievement.As I said before older daughter is happy there.However I think a fairer system is possible without damaging anyone's chances of a grammar school education.Also no one seems to have replied to other points.Perhaps too controversial for this thread
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Chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Chelmsford Mum
Like to see this thread getting more interesting. I have to admit when my elder son got a place at Kegs I was concerned that it might channel him in a very particular (probably academic) direction with regards to a career. Eg, medicine, law, accountancy etc. But I really feel that they mean it when they say they want to educate the whole child and value areas other than academics. My DS has just chosen his options and although he's a very capable boy he has not been under any pressure to stick to purely academic subjects. He's doing two non-academic GCSE's (which were the kind of subjects chosen by the strugglers at my middling comp). Yes there is a disproportionate number of children from wealthy backgrounds in his class, but there are also kids who are entitled to free school meals and whose home lives are not at all privileged. Despite my fears, I have never seen any evidence of superiority amongst staff. Aspiration is great but I hope that if he wanted to nurse (not doctor) the terminally ill, or work as a social worker in an inner-city, that the school would be equally as supportive as if he wanted to be a fund manager or surgeon!
Perhaps CCHS, wants its girls to break through that glass ceiling, that still exists in many fields, and so takes a feminist stance. Wouldn't we all be complaining if clever girls were told to aim no higher than nurse or teacher? These are of course, valuable jobs, I work in education myself. But girls (and boys) need to know that they can compete with the boys now and aim for the top - if they want to.
By the way, the daughter of a friend of mine was a top, top student at CCHS and went on to become a midwife. She was not discouraged from this or persuaded to become an obstetrician. They accepted her interests/strengths.
Like to see this thread getting more interesting. I have to admit when my elder son got a place at Kegs I was concerned that it might channel him in a very particular (probably academic) direction with regards to a career. Eg, medicine, law, accountancy etc. But I really feel that they mean it when they say they want to educate the whole child and value areas other than academics. My DS has just chosen his options and although he's a very capable boy he has not been under any pressure to stick to purely academic subjects. He's doing two non-academic GCSE's (which were the kind of subjects chosen by the strugglers at my middling comp). Yes there is a disproportionate number of children from wealthy backgrounds in his class, but there are also kids who are entitled to free school meals and whose home lives are not at all privileged. Despite my fears, I have never seen any evidence of superiority amongst staff. Aspiration is great but I hope that if he wanted to nurse (not doctor) the terminally ill, or work as a social worker in an inner-city, that the school would be equally as supportive as if he wanted to be a fund manager or surgeon!
Perhaps CCHS, wants its girls to break through that glass ceiling, that still exists in many fields, and so takes a feminist stance. Wouldn't we all be complaining if clever girls were told to aim no higher than nurse or teacher? These are of course, valuable jobs, I work in education myself. But girls (and boys) need to know that they can compete with the boys now and aim for the top - if they want to.
By the way, the daughter of a friend of mine was a top, top student at CCHS and went on to become a midwife. She was not discouraged from this or persuaded to become an obstetrician. They accepted her interests/strengths.
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Chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Hi Debbie,
Good to hear all your positive comments. I do wonder though , if the social landscape has changed even in the last couple of years.My daughter's class has 25 out of 30 from private prep schools and the last Ofsted said no child was entitled to free school meals.
I still think overall it is the right school for her, but feel there is no denying the social narrowness of the intake.
Perhaps Kegs, for whatever reason, is different?
Also no denying the school's strengths but feel people on this website ,in general, seem not to want to acknowledge any downsides of high flying grammars. Of course some exceptions but I still stand by what I said about the dangers of a kind of superiority complex in such schools.Not all kids and not all staff but I feel it is there.
Glad your son is happy though
Good to hear all your positive comments. I do wonder though , if the social landscape has changed even in the last couple of years.My daughter's class has 25 out of 30 from private prep schools and the last Ofsted said no child was entitled to free school meals.
I still think overall it is the right school for her, but feel there is no denying the social narrowness of the intake.
Perhaps Kegs, for whatever reason, is different?
Also no denying the school's strengths but feel people on this website ,in general, seem not to want to acknowledge any downsides of high flying grammars. Of course some exceptions but I still stand by what I said about the dangers of a kind of superiority complex in such schools.Not all kids and not all staff but I feel it is there.
Glad your son is happy though
Wow, 25 out of 30 that's a lot. In my oldests class (year 9 - Kegs), privately educated kids are in the minority. It will be interesting to see the balance when my youngest starts in September, and whether that has changed. It's made me wonder whether parents have different aspirations for boys than for girls. Ie Are bright girls from less well-off backgrounds less likely to apply for grammar than bright boys from less well-off backgrounds? Hmm, sounds like someone should do a study? Not me!
I take your point about people being very positive about grammars. Friends of mine are surprised when I tell them some of the negative points. There is, of course, bad behaviour, some poor teaching, bullying etc etc and maybe with some kids, a sense that "I've arrived so I don't need to work hard because this school will open doors for me." You wouldn't get that in a comp. Also, I do wonder if going to a grammar can close doors too - prejudice from others, channelling into academic fields. And don't get me started on the single sex stuff. I know a single sex education is meant to be much better for girls, but it is one of my biggest reservations for my two sons with no sisters. I would feel I had failed as a mother if either of my boys believed they were superior to girls/people with less money/less academic ability.
As a postscript, Kegs may have a narrower social mix than the average English school, but it has a much higher proportion of children from ethnic minorities than the average school, which can only be a good thing for intercultural understanding/relations. Time to get off my soap box now, this is not Hyde Park corner.
I take your point about people being very positive about grammars. Friends of mine are surprised when I tell them some of the negative points. There is, of course, bad behaviour, some poor teaching, bullying etc etc and maybe with some kids, a sense that "I've arrived so I don't need to work hard because this school will open doors for me." You wouldn't get that in a comp. Also, I do wonder if going to a grammar can close doors too - prejudice from others, channelling into academic fields. And don't get me started on the single sex stuff. I know a single sex education is meant to be much better for girls, but it is one of my biggest reservations for my two sons with no sisters. I would feel I had failed as a mother if either of my boys believed they were superior to girls/people with less money/less academic ability.
As a postscript, Kegs may have a narrower social mix than the average English school, but it has a much higher proportion of children from ethnic minorities than the average school, which can only be a good thing for intercultural understanding/relations. Time to get off my soap box now, this is not Hyde Park corner.
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Chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Morning,
That's all very interesting.CCHS I would say does NOT have much ethnic diversity.There are 4 girls of Asian origin in her class and that is pretty much the pattern in the year group.Although, I suppose Essex itself is not very diverse in that way.
I am very surprised that there are so few from private school backgrounds at KEGS. I know a couple of teachers at my daughter's school on a social level and they have affirmed that whilst privately educated children have been increasing in number at CCHS, they have been 50% plus of the intake for many years.Given that a small prop of children are non state primary educated, it does indicate that they are way more successful at preparing their pupils for the 11+.I suppose that's why people pay after all.Given all that, it is interesting, as you say, that more state school boys buck this trend than girls.
Does your son go to the discos with the CCHS girls? It is one way they mix.I remember the first couple were a bit fraught with OTT attempts at romance! But they have calmed down now and the year group from both schools seem to mix quite well.I believe there are quite a few girls in the cadets too.There is always arranged marriage of course.I know some eligible girls.
I don't think I worry that my daughter will not keep her feet 'on the ground' re the social mix because we are at the opposite end of the spectrum to most of her friends in terms of means
However I do wonder if some of her friends will grasp what life is like for many people a lot worse off than us.I had a well off friend who used to take her ballet dancing, horse riding and sking type kids to a homeless charity to help on Christmas day.Some might think this a bit drastic 
Overall I have to be honest and say that I wish my year 6 dd was going to CCHS.( five places off )All of this is outweighed by the sense that I KNOW the school would get the best out of her academically.The local school seems to have more variables if you know what I mean.But she won't get the sense that all teenagers have a large disposable income, foreign holidays , the latest phone, latest ipod, driving lessons and a car as soon as they pass!
Well done for getting both in to KEGS. It must have been a huge relief
It's been genuinely intersting to compare notes with you
That's all very interesting.CCHS I would say does NOT have much ethnic diversity.There are 4 girls of Asian origin in her class and that is pretty much the pattern in the year group.Although, I suppose Essex itself is not very diverse in that way.
I am very surprised that there are so few from private school backgrounds at KEGS. I know a couple of teachers at my daughter's school on a social level and they have affirmed that whilst privately educated children have been increasing in number at CCHS, they have been 50% plus of the intake for many years.Given that a small prop of children are non state primary educated, it does indicate that they are way more successful at preparing their pupils for the 11+.I suppose that's why people pay after all.Given all that, it is interesting, as you say, that more state school boys buck this trend than girls.
Does your son go to the discos with the CCHS girls? It is one way they mix.I remember the first couple were a bit fraught with OTT attempts at romance! But they have calmed down now and the year group from both schools seem to mix quite well.I believe there are quite a few girls in the cadets too.There is always arranged marriage of course.I know some eligible girls.
I don't think I worry that my daughter will not keep her feet 'on the ground' re the social mix because we are at the opposite end of the spectrum to most of her friends in terms of means
However I do wonder if some of her friends will grasp what life is like for many people a lot worse off than us.I had a well off friend who used to take her ballet dancing, horse riding and sking type kids to a homeless charity to help on Christmas day.Some might think this a bit drastic Overall I have to be honest and say that I wish my year 6 dd was going to CCHS.( five places off
)All of this is outweighed by the sense that I KNOW the school would get the best out of her academically.The local school seems to have more variables if you know what I mean.But she won't get the sense that all teenagers have a large disposable income, foreign holidays , the latest phone, latest ipod, driving lessons and a car as soon as they pass! Well done for getting both in to KEGS. It must have been a huge relief
It's been genuinely intersting to compare notes with you
Relief, not half! Though if your daughter is 5th I reckon she stands a very good chance of getting in. A friend of mine teaches at CCHS and every July is given a class list. By the time September comes, usually 2/3 more children have been added. One year, two girls didn't turn up on the first day, and on the second day a girl arrived who had attended her local comp the day before. I think that takes nerves of steel, but I wouldn't give up just yet. When did you last check with the LEA? A friend of mine has a son who was 15th on list for Kegs and just last week moved to 5th. A couple of years ago, another friend's daughter was 6th and got into CCHS before April was over. My oldest got in on waiting list (from 2nd place). I was told about 10 kids each year get in from list, although this obviously varies from year to year.
Back to other points, although private school children do seem to be in minority in my son's class, it is in bigger proportion than %age of children who go to private school in society as a whole (I think) - about 25%.
Back to other points, although private school children do seem to be in minority in my son's class, it is in bigger proportion than %age of children who go to private school in society as a whole (I think) - about 25%.
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Chelmsford mum
- Posts: 2113
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Hi,
Just in from lovely lunch for Mother's day.
She hasn't moved since offer day on the list.Lovely man on the phone says less places returned than any year he has known.
Less to private sector probably due to credit crunch. I know it could still happen but am not overly optimistic. Won't buy uniform yet.I do know she will do well wherever she goes.As you understand though it was so sad to tell her she won't be with her sister
But Happy Mother's day - still so much to be thankful for in life really.
Just in from lovely lunch for Mother's day.
She hasn't moved since offer day on the list.Lovely man on the phone says less places returned than any year he has known.
Less to private sector probably due to credit crunch. I know it could still happen but am not overly optimistic. Won't buy uniform yet.I do know she will do well wherever she goes.As you understand though it was so sad to tell her she won't be with her sister
But Happy Mother's day - still so much to be thankful for in life really.
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FlightyRachel
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 2:57 pm
- Location: Essex
Hi ladies! And happy mothers' day to you! I've found your discussion v interesting.
I plucked up courage and rang on Fri to find that ds is 10th on KEGS list. Not really sure what that means, but told ds anyway... only to find he got all anxious and thinks he would rather go to SHSB! Now, if he does get to the top of the list, I'll have a whole new dilemma to worry about!!
There is a relevance to this thread too... I really want him to go to his 'best fit' school, socially as well as ability-wise, as although I'd love him to achieve academically, I also want him to have happy memories of school, and make some good friends.
When he looked round, he loved both KEGS and SHSB, although it's hard to compare as KEGS was a 'normal day' and SHSB an Open Evening.
(I'm really sorry if this seems an insensitive post, to people who haven't gained a grammar place and really wanted one)
I plucked up courage and rang on Fri to find that ds is 10th on KEGS list. Not really sure what that means, but told ds anyway... only to find he got all anxious and thinks he would rather go to SHSB! Now, if he does get to the top of the list, I'll have a whole new dilemma to worry about!!
There is a relevance to this thread too... I really want him to go to his 'best fit' school, socially as well as ability-wise, as although I'd love him to achieve academically, I also want him to have happy memories of school, and make some good friends.
When he looked round, he loved both KEGS and SHSB, although it's hard to compare as KEGS was a 'normal day' and SHSB an Open Evening.
(I'm really sorry if this seems an insensitive post, to people who haven't gained a grammar place and really wanted one)