URGENT! SOUTHEND WAITING LISTS INFO
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Can I ask those who are aggrieved by this "queue jumping" where they live?
Whilst I have some sympathy with the views, my BIGGEST concern about this whole 11+ selection process is the "jumping on the band wagon" is where the children are shipped in from.
Those of us who've lived in Essex for many, many years know just what it's taken to keep a grammar system operating in our county - both in terms of financial cost and political lobbying. To find our schools taking a large proportion of children from the London boroughs and other neighbouring counties is absolutely jaw-dropping.
I can only assume that those in this Southend situation are out-of-catchment (although I would be delighted to be corrected). Are you also out of the Essex CAF system? If so, then surely you'd be at the bottom of the list??
Whilst I have some sympathy with the views, my BIGGEST concern about this whole 11+ selection process is the "jumping on the band wagon" is where the children are shipped in from.
Those of us who've lived in Essex for many, many years know just what it's taken to keep a grammar system operating in our county - both in terms of financial cost and political lobbying. To find our schools taking a large proportion of children from the London boroughs and other neighbouring counties is absolutely jaw-dropping.
I can only assume that those in this Southend situation are out-of-catchment (although I would be delighted to be corrected). Are you also out of the Essex CAF system? If so, then surely you'd be at the bottom of the list??
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Chelmsford mum
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No , that's part of the sense of injustice people feel, in that these are people living out of Essex County who are going to the top of the queues of schools that they didn't express a preference for.
However that said I feel very sorry for anyone who gets 6 choices in their redbridge form and then gets none of them.
We all need a consistent system.All should get the same amount of choices.All should operate the same waiting list system.All grammars should either give some preference to local children or not.Not different choices, different waiting list policies and some Essex grammars giving pref to locals and others not.
Just my opinion
However that said I feel very sorry for anyone who gets 6 choices in their redbridge form and then gets none of them.
We all need a consistent system.All should get the same amount of choices.All should operate the same waiting list system.All grammars should either give some preference to local children or not.Not different choices, different waiting list policies and some Essex grammars giving pref to locals and others not.
Just my opinion
Southend Grammar School Waiting Lists
We are one of the ten people who have added our child to the waiting list of WHSB. The Southend admissions booklet clearly states that "the position on the waiting list is in accordance with the admission criteria and is not on a first come first served basis (item 22) the position of any pupil on the waiting list may change". I believe I am right in saying that the admissions criteria at a grammar school is 11 + score and therefore any waiting list should be ordered on position of merit. As the admission to grammar school is decided purely on 11+ score and as my son scored higher than yours he should be admitted first. Once the initial offer letters were sent out then the waiting list should have been held purely on merit and preferences should have no longer mattered.
However, the southend council did a U turn at the last minute and took latecomers off the waiting list while the re-allocation of places took place. So therefore we were not offered a place. This was not in accordance with Southend Borough Council's printed school admissions policy and is therefore unlawful. We are therefore seeking legal advice and will appeal against this decision.
We had perfectly valid reasons for changing our preferences and were told that we were within our rights to do so. We now feel very angry and let down at this sudden change of policy. It goes against the rule book and we rightly feel that we have been treated very badly. We are not going to let this rest.
However, the southend council did a U turn at the last minute and took latecomers off the waiting list while the re-allocation of places took place. So therefore we were not offered a place. This was not in accordance with Southend Borough Council's printed school admissions policy and is therefore unlawful. We are therefore seeking legal advice and will appeal against this decision.
We had perfectly valid reasons for changing our preferences and were told that we were within our rights to do so. We now feel very angry and let down at this sudden change of policy. It goes against the rule book and we rightly feel that we have been treated very badly. We are not going to let this rest.
With regards to people who aren't getting any of their choices then you obviously did not include your catchment school on your list. I can understand that some people live near a failing school and don't wish to put it but I still don't see that it's then right for your local authority to be advising you to reapply for Essex places (that are desperately sought by Essex residents)!
Westcliff have informed me that my son's score is more than adequate for him to be comfortable at that school, if they are happy with that then the local authority should not be accepting these additional applications. BTW the wording only states they will "consider" applications there is no legal rule that they have to include them on the waiting list. The loophole falls under the heading "Late Applications", I believe the key word is late it is designed for people who failed to submit an application at the correct time, ie due to change of address etc.
I had four choices - if I had put the 4 schools I really wanted my son to go to I would have been taking an enormous risk. Unlike some I do not have the option of private school so I had to make informed choices. Therefore, I made sure the fourth school on my list was one I knew my son met the entrance criteria for.
Westcliff have informed me that my son's score is more than adequate for him to be comfortable at that school, if they are happy with that then the local authority should not be accepting these additional applications. BTW the wording only states they will "consider" applications there is no legal rule that they have to include them on the waiting list. The loophole falls under the heading "Late Applications", I believe the key word is late it is designed for people who failed to submit an application at the correct time, ie due to change of address etc.
I had four choices - if I had put the 4 schools I really wanted my son to go to I would have been taking an enormous risk. Unlike some I do not have the option of private school so I had to make informed choices. Therefore, I made sure the fourth school on my list was one I knew my son met the entrance criteria for.
Re: Southend Grammar School Waiting Lists
[/quote]However, the southend council did a U turn at the last minute and took latecomers off the waiting list while the re-allocation of places took place. So therefore we were not offered a place. This was not in accordance with Southend Borough Council's printed school admissions policy and is therefore unlawful. We are therefore seeking legal advice and will appeal against this decision.
We had perfectly valid reasons for changing our preferences and were told that we were within our rights to do so. We now feel very angry and let down at this sudden change of policy. It goes against the rule book and we rightly feel that we have been treated very badly. We are not going to let this rest.
Actually, their policy (for late applicants) only states they will "consider" your application, they did consider it and decided for the first wave of movement they would stick to offering places to those who expressed a preference for the school.
I am not going to get personal as I understand you want the best for your child. My issue is not with you it's with the system. I am sure if you were in my position you would be feeling the same as me.
I sympathise with all involved in this - but do not assume that because someone got none of their 6 schools they were being unrealistic or that they did not put their 'catchment' school down. In our part of London, there are no catchments per se, just a variety of distance and sibling rules. I someone living where I do had put down their nearest 6 schools (exluding religious, single sex - well the wrong sex anyway - AND selective schools ie all those presumably 'unreaslitic choices') in borough they would still not have been allocated any of their choices. I agree wth Chelmsford Mum. Let's face it it is the anomally between all the different local authority systems and admissions processes that causes this problem not the parents ad children who in their own way are all losing out one way or another.
mad?
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Chelmsford mum
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- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Hi Silver,
I do feel for you . It is even more galling when you read that some of these applicants indicate in other posts that they have a private school to "fall back on" I do sympathise really I do.
I do also still feel sorry for those who did not receive any of their choices.I am not sure I would put a truly failing school on my CAF.(Just being honest )
I am afraid the tide is turning away from in catchment preference.LB of Sutton is abandoning in catchment priority for its girls ' grammars and the boys grammars did so ages ago.
As I have said before Silver and perhaps you know this yourself from CCHS.Older daughter is in a class where 25 of 30 come from private preps, many of whom tutored on top.Furthermore in her group of 5 close friends , one from Suffolk and two from east london.All doing incredible journeys to take up places at Essex schools.Furthermore talking to her friends' parents over the years, it is clear that many of them had private secondaries as a realistic back up option.Is this fair? Obviously not.Is it fair that your child is going down the waiting list, obviously not too.
I really wish the best for you but I know that's of no help.
I do feel for you . It is even more galling when you read that some of these applicants indicate in other posts that they have a private school to "fall back on" I do sympathise really I do.
I do also still feel sorry for those who did not receive any of their choices.I am not sure I would put a truly failing school on my CAF.(Just being honest )
I am afraid the tide is turning away from in catchment preference.LB of Sutton is abandoning in catchment priority for its girls ' grammars and the boys grammars did so ages ago.
As I have said before Silver and perhaps you know this yourself from CCHS.Older daughter is in a class where 25 of 30 come from private preps, many of whom tutored on top.Furthermore in her group of 5 close friends , one from Suffolk and two from east london.All doing incredible journeys to take up places at Essex schools.Furthermore talking to her friends' parents over the years, it is clear that many of them had private secondaries as a realistic back up option.Is this fair? Obviously not.Is it fair that your child is going down the waiting list, obviously not too.
I really wish the best for you but I know that's of no help.
Surely they must advise parents fairly of their options? If it is correct (to late apply to WHSB) then it's absolutely right for them to advise as such.put it but I still don't see that it's then right for your local authority to be advising you to reapply for Essex places (that are desperately sought by Essex residents)!
I checked online the waiting list booklet for Southend Admissions and I am sorry to say I can't see anything that backs up your position Silver29. I know that's not what you want to hear. It clearly states not First come First Served basis. Obviously preferences no longer apply then?
It also clearly states waiting lists take into account any new places that have been offered together with any other late applications and pupils that have moved into the borough. The key point is that late applications are NOT pupils that have moved into the borough. What other possible late applications can this refer to?
It would appear Essex Dad may have a legal case on this one.
I can answer your other point. No we didn't put the failing comp on our CAF, that is of course our right. We did put a so called link catchment school on our CAF as our absolute backup, we didn't get this either.
With regards to having a backup Private school, we could not afford such an option without a Scholarship award. Did you consider this option?
I am afraid the whole process is dog eat dog, and you have to do whatever you have to do (within the rules) to fight for a place.
I understand you are angry on this but I bet there is loads of really unfair practices occurring we are not discussing.
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Chelmsford mum
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- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:16 pm
Hi Kracken,
Can't speak for silver 29 but no amount of scolarship short of 100% would have helped us.As you may recall we did not name out of Chelmsford grammars because we could not afford the 1000 per year fares!Fortunately both our older daughters now have a place at Chelmsford county High.
Can you understand what it is to not be able to afford a private tutor?Can you understand how you might feel if you didn't have the private option?
I don't say this to blame anyone for doing the best for their child with the resources that they have.
However how truly awful it is that it is so 'dog eat dog' as you put it.And how sad that we don't all come to the fight with the same resources to atleast make it a fair fight. I know this is nothing new but its rotten.
.How cut throat this is all becoming .
Can't speak for silver 29 but no amount of scolarship short of 100% would have helped us.As you may recall we did not name out of Chelmsford grammars because we could not afford the 1000 per year fares!Fortunately both our older daughters now have a place at Chelmsford county High.
Can you understand what it is to not be able to afford a private tutor?Can you understand how you might feel if you didn't have the private option?
I don't say this to blame anyone for doing the best for their child with the resources that they have.
However how truly awful it is that it is so 'dog eat dog' as you put it.And how sad that we don't all come to the fight with the same resources to atleast make it a fair fight. I know this is nothing new but its rotten.
.How cut throat this is all becoming .
Chelmsford mum
I am sad as well it's like this. Can you name anything that is fair and level playing field. Football (Prem) Formula 1 etc. Jobs, Life even!!
We said to our DS who desperately wanted to go to Grammar that the only guarantee is if you come in the top 120 places. You are then in the school, no waiting list no praying, hoping, no one jumping ahead etc etc.
I can understand some may not have the private option, you have to fight with whatever ammunition you have at your disposal. We made lots of sacrifices and help from family to achieve this, we are not rich.
There are Scholarships and Bursaries available though, I know there isn't many but they are available.
I am sad as well it's like this. Can you name anything that is fair and level playing field. Football (Prem) Formula 1 etc. Jobs, Life even!!
We said to our DS who desperately wanted to go to Grammar that the only guarantee is if you come in the top 120 places. You are then in the school, no waiting list no praying, hoping, no one jumping ahead etc etc.
I can understand some may not have the private option, you have to fight with whatever ammunition you have at your disposal. We made lots of sacrifices and help from family to achieve this, we are not rich.
There are Scholarships and Bursaries available though, I know there isn't many but they are available.
