Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

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cairo
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by cairo »

Sorry EmeraldE - I got so incensed by the Academy debate, that I didn't answer any of your questions!

1. Yes, there are more places at the Girls' grammars than at the boys'. I think DRd and SHS both take 120, whereas STRS and Crypt are 108 and 112 respectively.

2. Last I heard there were 107 boys who'd passed and accepted a place at Crypt, so at that stage, there were places available. That was before Crypt's appeals though, so no idea how many boys are registered to start there now and whether places remain.

3. Your question whether "not enough people pass to fill the places" is difficult to answer, due to the nature of the scoring system. The fact of the matter is that all these schools effectively alter the pass mark year on year to generate a certain number who "pass".

Pates have 160 children who pass each year and they are said to have scored 140+. This is so, whether they have only 300 averagely bright kids who sit the test or 10,000 mini-geniuses! So in one year it might only be necessary to score 80% to get a place at Pates, in another you might need 99%. It all depends on who you are competing with in any given year.

The other schools set their "pass mark" based on a standardised score dependent on the cohort (i.e. taking into account the scores of the other people who have also listed that school on their preference form, adjusted a bit for birthdays.) In STRS' case, I seem to remember that their cut-off is the top 40% of those who've listed STRS. So in a year where 600 boys apply, the top 240 will pass. STRS have obviously set their pass mark in the expectation that if they pass around 240, by the time the boys that go to Pates/Marling/independent schools are out of the equation, they will end up with the 108 boys they need. This is not an absolute science and explains why some schools end up with children who "passed" but don't get a place, whereas others don't seem to have enough who pass who want a place. I suppose if schools regularly ended up with fewer children passing than places available, they could adjust their cut-off point to generate more passes.

4. Don't know how many sat the test last year (2000-3000 would be my guess.) There are approx 800 GS places in Glos altogether.

Was that it?? I expect you are thinking about the test in November are you? Fortunately, my DS2 won't be sitting it till the following year. I'm banking on the fact that that year is a low birth-rate year and he has a late birthday. Every little helps! :D
EmeraldE
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by EmeraldE »

Many thanks Cairo. Yes my DS2 sits this year (DS1 last year) and so I feel like it has been non-stop! :?
I am trying to cope with the fact that I believe DS1 is probably more naturally intelligent and that DS2 has to work a little harder. The thought that DS1 did so well (he got into Pates) and that DS2 might not even pass ("pessimistic" my DH calls me!) is playing heavy on my mind. I remember being the 'stupid one' compared to my sister and it has stuck ever since, even tho I am more highly qualified than she is :lol: It is just that awful thought that DS2 would think he was 'no good' :( compared to his brother. Is anyone else in this situation?

I am staying positive on the outside for his sake and my sanity, but do wish that the boys had an equal number of places to the girls. Surely that would be fair? I think fair is a work that does not enter into the equation when it comes to grammar school testing. You take what you get and you go with the system.
Tourist
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 1:16 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by Tourist »

Hi EE. Yes, I can sympathise completely - both on your situation with your boys and also on having grown up in the academic shadow of a sibling! Our DD2 will take the test next year with the added pressure of knowing that her sister passed for Pates this year. I always feel DD2 has a slightly more fragile ego than our other two (perhaps something to do with being the middle child?) and just hate to think how she will feel if she doesn't pass for any of the grammars. I must admit, I personally also do find it sad that the girls will most likely be at different schools - they are very close (in between the bickering!). We like our local school and if DD2 feels happy to go there, that will be great but something tells me that the competitive horse has bolted and we are in for a rough ride on all other outcomes bar one. We haven't started papers for DD2 - I'm still in recovery mode (don't know how you have coped 2 years on the trot!) - so no clue how she'll cope with it all yet. All the best for your DS2 this year.
EmeraldE
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by EmeraldE »

Awww, thanks Tourist!
I was losing the will over the weekend after a paper in which there were so many silly errors and lack of reasoning. Sometimes I feel like it is me, the way I have taught him and the fact I am his mother which compounds the 'guilt'. Feeling more positive today as we have gone through some 'issues' in his technique and come to an understanding, so to speak.
:)
arealfarmer
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:17 pm
Location: Gloster-born'n'bred !

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by arealfarmer »

EE said ;
but do wish that the boys had an equal number of places to the girls. Surely that would be fair?
Don't forget though , that the birth ratio is 48/52 % - So more girls in each cohort ........
Milla
Posts: 2556
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by Milla »

nah, it's the other way round! :) worldwide about 107 - 100 and in UK 105 - 100 boys to girls. So, still short-changed. Except that far more boys, 2:1 are getting into Pate's, cf girls. So they're scooping extra places there.
mike1880
Posts: 2563
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:51 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by mike1880 »

Same thing happens in the co-ed GS in B'ham. It's because blokes are inherently cleverer.
EmeraldE
Posts: 431
Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2008 5:56 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by EmeraldE »

LOL Mike..very good! :lol:
There is a whole world of women teaching those little boys :D I rest my case :)
Milla
Posts: 2556
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:25 pm

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by Milla »

Good reply, EE.
Certainly seems to be, though, that Tommy's fills up more quickly and (going by the marks cut off given us for last year) having to achieve, generally, a higher mark (cut off 220 last year, cf Denmark Rd 210) than Denmark Rd and both DRd and Ribston have more spaces to fill. That's with fewer girls having passed for Pate's, too. Don't know what happens in Stroud, gender-wise. Capers???
Amber
Posts: 8058
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:59 am

Re: Tommies now not getting their extra places for 2011?

Post by Amber »

Very anecdotally, and backed up only by a sample of people known to me (and including me) - I think more parents would consider single-gender education for boys than girls. We knew from a very early age that DD would not be going to a single-gender school, but it was much more in the frame for DS1. Many of my acquaintances feel similarly, and all the girls I know this year who passed for D Road ended up not actually applying to go there, largely because of the single-gender status, but also with the travel as a factor.

The more interesting thing would be to find out the number of applicants of each gender to Pate's - as again, maybe the girls are not applying in the first place, for whatever reason.
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