Independent/State Preparation for Pates

[Amber]

I wonder if anyone has tried to factor in the school fees for those private schools which put VR on the curriculum from the infants upwards? I'm guessing you would need a 'more than £10 000' for that one - but it does give a large number of candidates quite a leg up. Just goes to show how impressive some of the DC who got in with so relatively little help must be.

[Tessiebear]

Would like to put a few people straight here as getting a bit fed up with the endless "indie knocking" going on here by some posters!

We are not from another planet, do not have have horrible, rude children and are not rolling in funds.

Many of us have given up many other things, as we did not have good local primary schools near us, to fund our children through school as we felt providing a good education was more important. Yes we are lucky that we could manage it, but it is not without sacrifices in other quarters of our lives that some others may not have chosen to make!!!!!

But more especially for the record, not many independents that I have heard of and certainly not the one my DC went to, have taught VR from infants !?! and indeed have only given token lessons through the end of year 5 and beginning of year 6 that in fact were not worth the time spent, as they did not focus on what really needed to be taught.

Yes, we enlisted the help of a tutor as well as a bit of DIYing, but we felt what we were able to manage to pay her would be an investment as we could not see we could pay for Senior School education. But we have not been tutoring since age 4 or 5 like some people suggest we may have been. We just put in plenty of time over the last couple of years researching this forum and other related sites for information, so that we were as prepared as we could be, well in advance and not leaving it to the last minute like some others, to give our DC as good a shot at the test as possible, since we consider that her education is very important and not something to be left to be looked into at the last minute and then rushed through in the last month or so.

Everyone knows their children will be changing from primary to secondary school and the information is out there readily available to everyone in this day and age, from many sources, so how people can say they didn't know about x,y or z in time to make decisions is beyond me!

Many people seem to spend more time and effort sorting out their holidays than some have bothered to do in looking into what is going to happen with changing from primary to secondary education, so it is no good whinging after the event that "we had no idea what was going to happen" or "only found out last week so couldn't prepare properly". I don't think that will wash with appeal boards when there are far more genuine cases requiring their assistance!

No gripe with genuine people who have tried hard to find out info well in time and tried hard to do their best for their children in preparing them. I wish you all the luck in the world and hope things go well for you.

But please can some of the posters on here stop taking a cheap swipe at "indie" people all the time. Our children do not deserve this tainting and it will not help all the children to gell together well when they start. I hope that it will be, as someone else put on here, that the children unlike some parents, take no notice of where they have all come from before and just want to get on and make friends!

End of rant!

[PaterGloucester]

Many people seem to spend more time and effort sorting out their holidays than some have bothered to do in looking into what is going to happen with changing from primary to secondary education

Well said.

I've been lurking on the forum for a month or so, but never felt the need to say anything until I read Amber's post. Tessiebear beat me to it.

My child's school in Cheltenham is considered an 'academic' independent. It has a good record of year 6's moving up to Pates and other Grammars but this is not because of some syllabus of high-powered VR lessons: it's because the parents who send their children to the school understand the importance of a good education, make sacrifices for it, and take the time to understand the system, the test and how to pass it.

There is a common misconception that independent school parents are rolling in it. Some may be, but the majority are not. What others may spend on cars, holidays, sport or even keeping a horse (a common pursuit round here), they choose to spend on their children's education. As far as I can see it's the best investment you can make when the state system (at least where we live) simply does not work at primary level, bundling 60 children into three rooms and rejecting any form of competition or academic aspiration.

No indie that I've heard of teaches VR "from the infants." At our school you get one lesson a week in the last two terms of year 6, and frankly it's very little use. It certainly wouldn't swing a place for any kid at Pates.

If you want to attack the indies go ahead, but do so out of an informed opinion rather than hearsay or plain, old-fashioned jealousy.

[sherry_d]

Ouch

Amber you need to answer this one yourself.

[KS10]

I don't think that Amber is knocking Indies as I'm pretty sure her DS attends one. I think she was just pointing out that you are usually at an advantage if you go to an Indie primary as they are more likely to prepare you for the 11+ and, certainly, my nephew (Year 5) was doing Bond papers in school and for homework in Year 4. His mum was asked not to give him Bond papers herself as they use these as assessments. So, yes, the cost of educating your child privately does need to be taken into account if the school prepares the child for the 11+.

[KS10]

Like your style sherry_d.

[livviloo]

[


There is a common misconception that independent school parents are rolling in it. Some may be, but the majority are not. What others may spend on cars, holidays, sport or even keeping a horse (a common pursuit round here), they choose to spend on their children's education. As far as I can see it's the best investment you can make when the state system (at least where we live) simply does not work at primary level, bundling 60 children into three rooms and rejecting any form of competition or academic aspiration.

[/quote]
If you can afford £500 pcm minimum for school fees, per child, then you are, in my opinion, pretty well off I am afraid. Sacrifices or not. We would be eating beans on toast and burning books to keep warm to afford that Ok, maybe not quite, or at least just in January.
In defence of state education. My DD (only 8 so not in the GS race yet) blossomed when she moved from indie school to state school despite(? because of) her class trebling in size nearly. We felt immense relief. Our family was happier immediately and the stress of finding the money was like a weight off our shoulders. We have more time together now I work less overtime to pay the fees.
The lack of academic aspiration is maddening however.

[turtleglos]

There is a common misconception that independent school parents are rolling in it. Some may be, but the majority are not. What others may spend on cars, holidays, sport or even keeping a horse (a common pursuit round here), they choose to spend on their children's education. As far as I can see it's the best investment you can make when the state system (at least where we live) simply does not work, bundling 60 children into three rooms and rejecting any form of competition or academic aspiration.

My son is in 138 place for Pates. He has come from a state school as we (despite having an old car,no holiday, no horse and no money for sports activities) are very poor. Considering that he was competing for a place with dcs who have had the advantage of a better education for the 7 years of Primary school I am incredibly proud of him.
I do wonder though what he may have achieved had we been in the privileged position of affording this investment.

My child's school in Cheltenham is considered an 'academic' independent. It has a good record of year 6's moving up to Pates and other Grammars but this is not because of some syllabus of high-powered VR lessons: it's because the parents who send their children to the school understand the importance of a good education, make sacrifices for it, and take the time to understand the system, the test and how to pass it.

As it is, my dc may miss out on the best state school for him due to the number of parents who are happy to opt back into the state system when they decide that a particular school is giving better results than the private sector,taking places away from talented, intelligent dcs who may not be able to fulfill their potential due to ending up in the local comp.
This in my opinion is the reason that tutoring has become widespread.State schooled dcs have to compete with dcs from private education,this in turn pushes up the bar and makes it more difficult from those at the very bottom of society to access top quality education.
Forgive me for sounding bitter,I am in the position of watching my dc trying to cope with the fact that he probably wont get into the most suitable school for him and of knowing that he will have to work even harder to achieve his dreams as we are not in the financial position to "invest in his education"

[sherry_d]

Oh goodness cant this just stay on topic? The state vs independent debate is just sooooooooooo boring on an otherwise interesting topic.

(yawns and runs off to my Kent closet)

[PaterGloucester]

If you can afford £500 pcm minimum for school fees, per child, then you are, in my opinion, pretty well off I am afraid

Fair point. But it's a fact of life that in the Cotswolds £125+ a week would not even be noticed by a certain section of society (and by no means a small one). My point was that few who send their kids to indie primaries fall into this Croesian group.

Perhaps the debate should be over how the state primary schools aren't achieving, rather than how the indies are. Mumintewkes (I think) had some examples of open discouragement from her state school vis-a-vis her DD's application to Pates. Our state head (we bailed out in year 3) thought that no child should take the 11+ but if they had to it should not be with any tutoring. "If they can do it they'll get in" he said, just before we left…

Anyway I'm off topic, and trust these will be my first and last posts.

I hope all forum members get the places they truly deserve…

Peace out