Ribston/SHS

[glosguy]

Thanks for that. D not far off the top of waiting list so may hang in there. I never thought anything could feel so confusing as this! I do find it odd that there are places at the school that she didn't pass for, yet on the waiting list for school that she did pass for? It all seems backwards to me!

How do you know where you are on the waiting list??

[capers123]

'phone the school & ask? They may be able to give you a rough idea.

Of course, waiting list positions are not set in stone, especially at this stage. Parents had until yesterday to accept places, though they may decline a place at a later stage, and it wouldn't surprise me if Shire Hall wrote / rang those who they have not heard from yet.

If you happen to have had the top pass score that didn't get in, they you'll be number 1 on the list. After that, positions can shift - if someone else with a higher score than your child suddenly decides they want to go on the list, then everyone below will move down one place. Ranking on the waiting list is decided by the weighted score, exactly the same as the places already allocated were alloted.

If the child did not pass, then they can not go on the waiting list.

[crazybutsmiling]

Hi
I've been reading your posts, and am in same position, maybe slightly further down the waiting list.
If it helps just heard from someone in playground that their daughter not tkaing a SHS place as moving away.
However, I am still concerned to how much movement usually happens between now and september, considering last year apparently everyone who passed got a place!
Could this still be possible?
I am also putting together an appeal, not sure where to start!
Daughter passed, and really should have scored higher.
She is an extreme worrier, has been since reception. Was up very at night before test worrying!
Her CATS were both 126 nonverbal, 129 quantative but only 111 for verbal. So obviously at a disadvantage with a verbal reasoning test only!
SATs predicted at 5a for maths and science but only 4a for literacy, although that's last years predictions and we've worked hard on her literacy after those predictions. Not sure if it is due inability as she is still on all the top tables in her class, (as well as being the youngest in her class)!
I just couldn't get her to do much English work as she is and was maths crazy!!
Do I use this at appeal, what do I say??
So confused, sorry for the long post!

[hopefulandstressed]

Hi Crazybutsmiling!

Really encouraging to hear you know of someone that will not be taking up a SHS place - do you mind me asking which school you heard it? as I've heard of someone from King's Stanley primary that is not going to be taking their place due to a move and wondered if it's the same person? Hopefully it's someone different, then it gives us more chance of being successful come re-allocation. It's a horrible time though isn't it? Where's your alternative?

Best of luck

[cairo]

Crazybutsmiling - If your daughter passed for SHS, then any appeal you make will be on the basis of over-subscription, rather than non-qualification. In other words, you don't particularly need to prove that your DD is GS-standard (as she passed the test), but you will have to put forward arguments that SHS could cope with going over their admission number.

I would ask Shire Hall for the admission numbers in Sept for SHS over the past 5 yrs say. If they've gone over PAN before, you can then try to make an argument that doing so did not disadvantage the education of the children at the time. Look at their GCSE/A-level results. Is there anything to indicate that the school suffered in the years it was coping with higher numbers? Is there any building work scheduled which will increase capacity? etc.

You can also try to make the argument that, although your DD did pass, she should have done better. I would think the points you make about her being a worrier & not sleeping the night before are perfectly valid. However, as you've said yourself, VR is not her strong point, so perhaps a panel will think her performance was as to be expected? I think you could say that this type of test didn't play to her strengths, but not sure how much weight an appeal panel will give to this, as lots of children will be in that situation - and that's the test we've got in Glos!

Hopefully, you won't need to go to an appeal. There is normally a fair amount of movement from the waiting lists. But definitely worth appealing as well as waiting, as that gets you two bites of the cherry. Good Luck!

[crazybutsmiling]

Thank you Cairo for your reply. I guess I am very intimidated at the prospect of appealing using the oversubscription argument, because I need to make a case as to why my daughter should make school go over PAN.
There are many many other factors my daughter probably didn't do as well which are very strong, rather not mention on here. However, I guess this won't really be of interest if I am to make an oversubscription appeal.
How does one argue to go over PAN, only on previous years, especially if there are another 20 girls arguing the same, how would they decide that case?
If we take our 2nd choice we will need to move house, and I will need to move my younger daughter (in year 3) to another school. So this may be worth mentioning.
Oh this is all very stressful!

[capers123]

However, I am still concerned to how much movement usually happens between now and september, considering last year apparently everyone who passed got a place!

That was after appeals had taken place, I think. There is no movement once the appeals start & end in June, as the panel 'may well' have allowed - say - 7 or 8 appeals.

Cairo is quite correct in saying that you need to concentrate on an oversubscription appeal - hey - that's better than if she hadn't passed, where you'd be having to get over non-qual AND oversub hurdles at the same time!

Technically you don't need to prove your daughters ability, as that was proven by passing the test. However, showing that she should have got an even higher score had [insert reason here] not occured won't harm your case.

The panel are likely to be aware that the school has been able to cope with up to 8 extra pupils in previous years, but nethertheless, you should gently point this out, by asking the School side at the appeal if there's been any evidence of the higher number affecting the quality of teaching, results or experience for the pupils. The school has improved from Good to Outstanding in the Ofsted and also improved in GCSE results, so the answer should be pretty obvious.

You don't have to use CAT scores (unless your school happens to supply them directly to the panel) if they're not useful to your case. They're more useful for a non-qual appeal. Bringing a few examples of great school work to hand round can be helpful, but the panel won't spend hours looking at it.

She is an extreme worrier, has been since reception. Was up very at night before test worrying!

Mention that.

SATs predicted at 5a for maths and science but only 4a for literacy, although that's last years predictions and we've worked hard on her literacy after those predictions.

Can you get some up-to-date predictions to submit?

Good luck.

[spottycat]

I know its easier said than done Crazybutsmiling but don't be intimidated by the appeals process. From my experience the appeals panels go out of their way to make you feel comfortable and not intimidated. Your dd sounds as though she'd do well at SHS. They will listen to all the appeals and will allow 8 over PAN - each case will be heard according to merit - you just need to go in and make your daughter's case. I think I'm right in saying that they won't necessarily allocate all 8 over PAN places - just allow appeals where they think there's a strong case. Good luck.

[capers123]

From my experience the appeals panels go out of their way to make you feel comfortable and not intimidated.

I don't do SHS appeals, but it's not true. I'm a nasty, vicious, miserable B. I hate appelants as much as I hate the school side. Not too keen on the clerks or other panel members either. After all, I might have had a bad nights sleep, or my milk for my meusli might have been off.

I think I'm right in saying that they won't necessarily allocate all 8 over PAN places - just allow appeals where they think there's a strong case. Good luck.

True. There's no 'have to allow 8 appeals'. They might happen to, but if the panel on the day feels that it is unfair on the school, then they might not. Different panels, and even - say - the same panel theoretically doing different schools, might come to different conclusions.

[crazybutsmiling]

Thank you for your reassurances. My big question is if they do end up allowing 8 over PAN, what would make a strong case when using over subscription appeal. Why one person over another. Surely not just saying "well you allowed more last year so let my daughter in"!
Seems clearer if it was a non qualifiaction!
I have lots of reasons why this school is the best for my daughter, should I use that?