Private school entry to Grammar

[MedievalBabe]

The private primary schools did have a large proportion of children who ended up in the GS. DS has 10 from one specific indie primary in his class, but has has also said several are struggling at the bottom of the class and at least 5 across the year, all from Indies originally, have left.

I also know of parents who had children in the Indie primaries and they were told their children were definite Pates material, didn't even pass the exam even though shared with several GS and have turned out to be in the bottom sets at Indie secondaries as their abilities have been inflated. Also they got VR lessons in school because they are needed for the local CE exams and then they also got extra tutoring to get them through the GS exam as well. It looks good for the Indie Primaries to say they got pupils to the GS.

Obviously with the new exam we don't know how many children have passed from the Indie sector yet. I do know some of the usual top performing state primaries in Cheltenham haven't got the usual number who have passed the GS exam, so whether the change to CEM means it will be fairer we have yet to see.

[Tolstoy]

I can't say I completely understand why a test cannot be made tutorproof - how about changing the test every year so much so that tutors can't really keep up for example?

Children would then be taught every thing under the sun.

And we can't have that, can we?

I have said before, given that I would prefer to see the back of selective education as a first choice, if we have to have it, it would be great to throw some really off the wall things at these kids. Maybe map reading, assembling a broken bicycle, following a complex recipe or using birdsong recordings and habitat information to identify some birds, which really couldn't be tutored for. Everyone would be at the same disadvantage and it would allow children with a bit of something about them to shine. They could be told they were going for a bit of a fun day out and that it wasn't a test at all.

Am all for that, especially if they also allowed state heads to recommend sitting it to parents of DC who would truly benefit from the schools and who wouldn't think to put them in for the test. Plus any savings could be used to pay for economically disadvantaged DC's bus fare.

[Stressed?Moi?]

Surely instead of vilifying indies for preparing students to go into a state school, state schools should be doing it as well. I think the whole "us and them" thing is very unfair. I still haven't had a good answer to why state primaries are actively discouraging grammar preparation - that is where my beef lies and where inequality lies.

[Tolstoy]

The state heads are not allowed to recommend Grammars, stressed-moi. It is very frustrating because some who are anti selection anyway are happy to go along with this and others feel their hands are tied. Leads to a very unequal situation especially when it comes to appeals and needing school evidence etc. I do know of at least one who thankfully broke the rules leading to an excellent opportunity for one DC, unfortunately financial constraints deny her siblings the same opportunity

[Stressed?Moi?]

The state heads are not allowed to recommend Grammars, stressed-moi. It is very frustrating because some who are anti selection anyway are happy to go along with this and others feel their hands are tied. Leads to a very unequal situation especially when it comes to appeals and needing school evidence etc. I do know of at least one who thankfully broke the rules leading to an excellent opportunity for one DC, unfortunately financial constraints deny her siblings the same opportunity

Just seems absolutely bonkers - it is just a move within the state system after all, just that it is selective. State school parents really should be kicking up about this. A friend who was a teacher at my kids' old state primary said that it was because the head there didn't want prospective parents having access to statistics on pupils who had/hadn't qualified for grammar. What the.................? She said basically, it was just too hard and may reflect badly. Effectively you are writing kids off because you can't be bothered to include it within your lesson plan. Going back to my comment about indie schools encouraging it - there just is an assumption that pupils will pass and they are encouraged to try, even if just for the experience of sitting an exam (at ours there was no pressure, but there may be at others I guess).

[DebsB]

Surely instead of vilifying indies for preparing students to go into a state school, state schools should be doing it as well. I think the whole "us and them" thing is very unfair. I still haven't had a good answer to why state primaries are actively discouraging grammar preparation - that is where my beef lies and where inequality lies.

Exactly. The system as it stands is nuts.

If the state education system in Gloucestershire believes in selective education, then it should have state grammar schools and the state primary schools should prepare children for the test, and advise parents whose kids would have a good chance of getting in and who would benefit from the education they would get there. If the system does not believe in selective education, then it shouldn't have grammar schools at all.

It makes no sense at all to have GS in this "well we have them but we can't talk about them" kind of way.

Indy schools are businesses who will provide what parents want in order to maintain their market share. Of course if local parents want kids to be prepared for state GS entrance as well as or instead of indy secondaries, then the indy primaries will provide appropriate preparation. There's nothing wrong with that, or with the parents who choose to send their kids there. The ones who lose out are the children of parents who can't afford indy primaries, can't afford tutoring, and don't have the time/inclination/expertise to prepare their kids for the GS test themselves.

Oh, and I totally agree with Tolstoy - there should be means tested free bus passes for kids who can get a GS place but can't afford the transport. Nobody who lives in Gloucestershire who can get a GS place should be unable to take it up just because they can't afford it.

[Stressed?Moi?]

Oh, and I totally agree with Tolstoy - there should be means tested free bus passes for kids who can get a GS place but can't afford the transport. Nobody who lives in Gloucestershire who can get a GS place should be unable to take it up just because they can't afford it. [/quote]

Spot on. My dd's best friend is from a really hard up family bless her, and qualifies for free school meals. She passed for Pates, and as the family don't have a car, they would have to fork out £100's per year on bus passes. It turned out well as she loves Ribston (as she would have loved Pates I'm sure), but it could so easily have not been the case. Wrong, wrong - this shouldn't happen. The state should definitely intervene in cases such as hers.

[Gurdjieff]

I dont think anyone is vilifying Indies are they? I certainly wasn't, I went to one. Just wondering whether they're worth the money really.

[Guest55]

Stresssed?Moi? They would get free transport if she is PP; low income families won't pay.

In Bucks, primary schools and partner schools (which includes private schools) have to agree NOT to prepare for the Selection Test.

[DebsB]

Stresssed?Moi? They would get free transport if she is PP; low income families won't pay.

No, afraid not, unless it's one of the child's three nearest secondary schools. If you choose to go to a GS further from home, then you have to pay even if you are PP. You can get free transport for a school up to 15 miles away if it is the nearest school that's suitable for your religion or belief, but there's no similar special clause for GS.

See Gloucestershire's page about it:
http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/mobil ... =51267&p=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is because Gloucestershire isn't a "proper" GS county. It's a comp county with 7 GS that the county council would really like to pretend don't exist.