Exam marking

[Watermelon8]

...the more I think about it the whole 11 + system the less I like it ...... hmmmm

Agree - gone are the days of an "equal" playing field where every year 6 (or 4th year in my day!) sat the exam. No tutors, no money, everyone had a chance, everyone had the same "stress", no-one was under pressure (told just to do the best we could by our teacher!), no-one travelling for miles on trains, buses, taxi etc. for an education.

But then along came bureaucracy, money and an "I want" culture, which stretched to neighbouring counties.

No child that does not qualify should feel a "failure". The parent(s) should feel a failure.

But what is the answer Abolish Grammar Schools, have more Grammar Schools.... a never ending debate I think!

So sad & so much pressure. No longer local schools for local pupils. But as you say, what is the answer?

[mcfly]

How about testing all kids within the county at the end of Y4, Y5 and Y6? It would eliminate the buildup to a single test where you can under perform on the day. Also it would eliminate a lot of formal tutoring. And by including only county children would eliminate pushy parents sending kids 50 miles each way to school. Just an idea.

[Eccentric]

How about testing all kids within the county at the end of Y4, Y5 and Y6? It would eliminate the buildup to a single test where you can under perform on the day. Also it would eliminate a lot of formal tutoring. And by including only county children would eliminate pushy parents sending kids 50 miles each way to school. Just an idea.

I have thought long and hard on how children could best be selected for schools, as I am sure many others have. I haven't come up with a sensible alternative to the current testing (I do think that there should be more than one test on one day.) The problem with testing over 3 years is that many children don't develop their abilities until later. The 12+/13+ I believe is there to catch those that develop later and those that have a bad day for the 11+. In my view introducing tests from the end of year 4 would just encourage tutoring even earlier and wouldn't help late developers. There were a number of children in my DD's class in year 4 who were doing really well but now in secondary school they aren't, and vice versa.
I thought perhaps regular CAT scoring from an early age may be an option but a friend who used to work at an Indie that tested every year said the scores were not reliable and changed fundamentally every year. This has not been my personal experience Dd's CATS have been pretty static.
I think the real answer is that we should find a way of stopping selection altogether and making sure that the brighter more motivated children still get a good education in a comprehensive system.

[mcfly]

I think the real answer is that we should find a way of stopping selection altogether and making sure that the brighter more motivated children still get a good education in a comprehensive system.

My opinion has evolved over the last 2 years since we started on the GS journey too and it's more or less the same as yours. If all kids went to the local comp it would pull up the whole school. But I think the demand for GS is not (only?) about elitism. It's about overall education performance; there is certainly a social engineering factor that GS parents want their DC to mix with equally talented or hard working kids. Some bright kids are easily distracted in the "wrong crowd" and there is certainly the element in most comps that believe it's not "cool" to be smart or work hard. That's why we put our DC forward for GS. Btw, I went to a comp and I have a PhD now but it was certainly not because of my comp!

[Gotinonherownmerit]

And by including only county children would eliminate pushy parents sending kids 50 miles each way to school. Just an idea.

Quite. I cannot understand the rationale of making your child get up at stupid o'clock to shove them on a bus or train to a school out of County and have them come home worn out after a long commute home. I know we all want the best for our kids but I can't see that this scenario is achieving anything more than taking a place at a good school to the detriment of the social and mental wellbeing of your child. Not to mention opening them up to quite a few risks along the way.

[clarcats]

I didn't tutor my daughter for the 11+. As a primary school teacher I had seen so many children over the years being tutored so that they'd pass the 11+ despite them not actually being typically very able children. My daughter was the first year to sit the new CEM test last year, the schools changed the test as they were concerned about the amount of tutoring going on- and clearly they were getting children in school who they felt weren't of the ability they were 'looking for'-hence the change. She is also a end of August born child.

I didn't put any pressure on my Daughter to do the test, we looked at local comprehensive schools too and if she hadn't passed for the grammar schools then she would have gone to the local comp- both comp and grammar are in equal walking distance for us.

She was always a bright child, could read before she started school (not because I hot housed and taught her, she always loved books right from when she was tiny and when I felt that she was ready I just put early reading books in her direction and she started to learn to read at a very fast pace) and likes learning. She was concerned because her friends were having tutoring (some from before Year 5 of primary) and was worried she was missing out. I told her that it didn't matter, that she could take the test and if she passed then great, if not then not a problem, as long as she carried on working hard wherever she went she'd be fine.

We did look through the sample test paper together (the one the schools have a copy of on their websites-or a link to) so that she would have an idea of the types of questions. I bought some books for her to look through, and she looked at one of them once about a week before the test and I looked at the answers with her after- one 'test'.

Anyway, she took the test, said some bits were hard, said she didn't have time to finish bits and passed, getting ranked within top 120 for SHS and top 114 for Ribston. I didn't put down to share results with Pates or HSFG as I considered them too far away for us (Ribston was only a back up option, she wasn't keen so probably would have gone to local comp if she didn't pass).
So she achieved a place at Grammar school on her ability, not on any tutored ability, any prep on timings so that she could answer more questions to give her a better score! Schools won't tell you scores so I have no idea where she was in the 120.

Interestingly, all the other girls in my daughter's Y6 class who took the test were tutored and didn't pass or get into the rankings.

[Mrsdevonshire]

We approached this without knowing other parents doing the same thing. Our son goes to a v small primary school with mixed years. But has always been academic.

We booked him to do the 11+ after speaking to his teacher. We bought a practice test (old style) and he seemed to struggle a bit with verbal reasoning. So after Easter last year we got a friend to do some verbal comp with him. He didn't do any maths or non verbal reasoning.

As it got closer to the exam a friend mentioned she was booking a tutor for her younger child and mentioned one she had heard of. We rang her to book our younger daughter who has an August birthday and she offered to let our son sit a mock exam with her which she would mark and give feedback. Her main feedback was he was slow but likely to pass.

This was August and he sat the exam in early Sept. We took some practice tests on hols and when he sat the test we only shared results with Marling as we live near it. He got a top 150 place. So no idea how he'd have done in context of all schools. With our daughter we will share more broadly.

He says now (to his sister doing it in Sept) that the actual 11+ e am is easier than any practice test he did.

So I guess we prepared him but not to the extent we are with his sister. I don't think she'd stand a chance without some preparation. She lacks co fidence but not ability. He lacked technique and had never say an exam before.

When our son sat it we met parents who had tutored for years. Would love to know how those boys did.

Mrs D