A grammar vs. independent dilemma

[streathammum]

OP, you mentioned in your first post that cost is an issue relating to private schooling. In that case, you do need to think carefully about whether it's the route you want to go down. For example, if there's a risk that you won't be able to keep up with the fees for the whole five years, you risk your son having to move to a state school part-way through secondary, which sounds like it wouldn't be ideal for him.

Also, you might want to give some thought to what else you could be spending the fees on that might have also support his particular needs - for example, trips away, extra-curricular courses, or whatever else you think might be beneficial.

I know you're currently veering between grammars and independents, but have you given any thought to your local all-ability schools? I can see why you might be wary of them but (without knowing your area, your potential schools or your individual son, and recognising that Crypt is getting some great reviews) it's worth at least considering them before discounting them.

Good luck.

[laurenceneville]

OP, you mentioned in your first post that cost is an issue relating to private schooling. In that case, you do need to think carefully about whether it's the route you want to go down. For example, if there's a risk that you won't be able to keep up with the fees for the whole five years, you risk your son having to move to a state school part-way through secondary, which sounds like it wouldn't be ideal for him.

Also, you might want to give some thought to what else you could be spending the fees on that might have also support his particular needs - for example, trips away, extra-curricular courses, or whatever else you think might be beneficial.

I know you're currently veering between grammars and independents, but have you given any thought to your local all-ability schools? I can see why you might be wary of them but (without knowing your area, your potential schools or your individual son, and recognising that Crypt is getting some great reviews) it's worth at least considering them before discounting them.

Good luck.

Cost is an issue in the sense that Cheltenham College and Dean Close are too expensive for us. If he goes private it will mean some sacrifices - basically five years longer to pay off the mortgage. However, we would be able to commit all the way to GCSEs (including school trips).

We have looked at the local comp but I think academically it would be doing DS a disservice: he's capable of high academic acheivement but only in an environment where that is the norm. I'm not saying it's not possible to do extremely well at a comp - just that I don't think he would.

[Amber]

Small classes are not necessarily the answer for sensitive children, though on the face of it that seems like a no-brainer. They reduce the pool of potential friends for a start off. Sometimes it is also the case that pastoral care is not the best in independent schools for reasons hard to unpick, but possibly to do with staff believing that problems don't exist. We looked at one way back when DD was little and we had decided not to send her to school until she was legally obliged to go. This pushed us into the private sector for a while as state schools wouldn't allow it. We visited a few and in one of them both staff and head absolutely insisted that there was no bullying at all in the school, ever. This of course cannot be true, but it put me off totally as if you don't acknowledge the possibility of a problem you presumably don't have any strategies to deal with it.

Independent schools also don't have teachers who are any better than anywhere else and indeed they may be worse as the qualifications threshold used to be lower (the Coalition government lowered it for everyone so now that is less pertinent!). In my experience the staff don't go on as many courses and may not be as up to date with new curricula and practice either. Note - may not. This isn't a sweeping generalisation, just a pitfall to look out for. There is no correlation at all between class size and attainment - it is just not true that most children do better in smaller classes. Though a really anxious child or one with some particular SENs of course will almost certainly need that.

My other thought is that confidence doesn't just come from school. In fact school can be a dreadful confidence killer. Having friends and interests outside school, including perhaps things in which a child excels, is key imho to a rounded and confident young person. This means not only the obvious things like sport and music, but also spending time with family friends of all ages, being outdoors (my own personal panacea for all ills!), cooking (my next one!), visiting places, doing some good things for others (vital as your child matures - voluntary work is brilliant for all) etc. The more that school is the only outing a child has, the more focus will be put on it and the worse everything will feel if it isn't going well.

If this were me, LN, I reckon I would run with Crypt and spend the next year ensuring that your son has a rich and interesting life out of school to give him lots to draw on when he moves. Go into it positively but not blind to the potential issues, and start saving your money in case you feel he needs to leave later; but bear in mind what I always say about grammar schools also applies to independent ones - they are only schools. The same kids, the same teachers, the same issues - good, bad and ugly. Having money to pay does not make families any nicer or kinder. Some of the most spectacular derailing incidents I have seen have involved children at private schools - the issues are maybe different but the children are not angels.

Good luck to you both.

[laurenceneville]

Small classes are not necessarily the answer for sensitive children, though on the face of it that seems like a no-brainer. They reduce the pool of potential friends for a start off. Sometimes it is also the case that pastoral care is not the best in independent schools for reasons hard to unpick, but possibly to do with staff believing that problems don't exist. We looked at one way back when DD was little and we had decided not to send her to school until she was legally obliged to go. This pushed us into the private sector for a while as state schools wouldn't allow it. We visited a few and in one of them both staff and head absolutely insisted that there was no bullying at all in the school, ever. This of course cannot be true, but it put me off totally as if you don't acknowledge the possibility of a problem you presumably don't have any strategies to deal with it.

Independent schools also don't have teachers who are any better than anywhere else and indeed they may be worse as the qualifications threshold used to be lower (the Coalition government lowered it for everyone so now that is less pertinent!). In my experience the staff don't go on as many courses and may not be as up to date with new curricula and practice either. Note - may not. This isn't a sweeping generalisation, just a pitfall to look out for. There is no correlation at all between class size and attainment - it is just not true that most children do better in smaller classes. Though a really anxious child or one with some particular SENs of course will almost certainly need that.

My other thought is that confidence doesn't just come from school. In fact school can be a dreadful confidence killer. Having friends and interests outside school, including perhaps things in which a child excels, is key imho to a rounded and confident young person. This means not only the obvious things like sport and music, but also spending time with family friends of all ages, being outdoors (my own personal panacea for all ills!), cooking (my next one!), visiting places, doing some good things for others (vital as your child matures - voluntary work is brilliant for all) etc. The more that school is the only outing a child has, the more focus will be put on it and the worse everything will feel if it isn't going well.

If this were me, LN, I reckon I would run with Crypt and spend the next year ensuring that your son has a rich and interesting life out of school to give him lots to draw on when he moves. Go into it positively but not blind to the potential issues, and start saving your money in case you feel he needs to leave later; but bear in mind what I always say about grammar schools also applies to independent ones - they are only schools. The same kids, the same teachers, the same issues - good, bad and ugly. Having money to pay does not make families any nicer or kinder. Some of the most spectacular derailing incidents I have seen have involved children at private schools - the issues are maybe different but the children are not angels.

Good luck to you both.

Brilliant advice. Thank you so much.

[cazien]

I know time is now running out for submitting CAF and end of term approaches, but have you spoken to anyone in the Pastoral Care team at Crypt to discuss your concerns? Crypt's term ends tomorrow and resumes on Tuesday 31 October. If you want/prefer to write everything down email office@crypt.gloucs.sch.uk, and it will be passed on to someone in the team, as all staff are contactable via email.

All schools, single-sex as well as mixed, will encounter banter, bullying, rough-and-tumble, as well as socially anxious children, SEN children etc. This is why they all will have a Pastoral care team, SENCO, anti-bullying policy, SEN policy etc, but unfortunately not every school, as Amber has stated, will be prepared to admit that "all is not rosy in the garden".

Good luck

[laurenceneville]

I know time is now running out for submitting CAF and end of term approaches, but have you spoken to anyone in the Pastoral Care team at Crypt to discuss your concerns? Crypt's term ends tomorrow and resumes on Tuesday 31 October. If you want/prefer to write everything down email office@crypt.gloucs.sch.uk, and it will be passed on to someone in the team, as all staff are contactable via email.

All schools, single-sex as well as mixed, will encounter banter, bullying, rough-and-tumble, as well as socially anxious children, SEN children etc. This is why they all will have a Pastoral care team, SENCO, anti-bullying policy, SEN policy etc, but unfortunately not every school, as Amber has stated, will be prepared to admit that "all is not rosy in the garden".

Good luck

Yes, I have spoken to the head of pastoral care and he acknowledged there had been failings in the past (which, as Amber said, is a good thing) but said there are lots of new policies and safeguards being put in place.
I'm sure our worries are like that of many parents - how will our child in a small class cope in a class twice the size and a year group much bigger than his entire school. But because he is so shy, sensitive, has been bullied in the past, and is unwilling to put himself forward (despite being clever) these problems seem magnified a thousand times.
As many posters have said, the best course of action may be to put the Crypt down as our choice, take the indepedent school exams and put off the final decision until March when we all might feel a little more calm and be more rational.

[kenyancowgirl]

You may be surprised and find that actually there are other boys very like your son at the Crypt - it is not completely unusual for bright children to be bullied in Primary School as they can be seen as "different" and, he may find himself with more likeminded souls than he has had in the past. You may have to deal with him not being the brightest button in the class too, which could be the other side to it!! The Crypt is, I think, bringing in girls this year? I was listening to the director of sport from there recently (at least I think he was from the Crypt!) and he was describing the things they were doing in readiness for this - I was impressed with how much they had thought through what they might have to face/deal with and if this is indicative of their new pastoral care, it seemed ok to me.

[ash14]

My son is at the Crypt school and I have nothing but praise for the school. His probably my sensitive child and I was worried about him and his tiny too however he loves the school and has really brought him out his shell- maybe a little too much at times!!

[Stressed?Moi?]

It isn't the case for me but I have to say that if my DS wasn't all that fussed about being with boys and didn't like rough and tumble, I wouldn't send him to a boys school. Pastoral is excellent at the schools from what I consistently read, but if he fundamentally won't thrive in that sort of environment and you have a choice, and you can afford private the decision seems easier. Their personality and where they will feel most comfortable I would say is more important than academic results. If they are relaxed, they will flourish anywhere. One of my DCs was at a grammar school and it went wrong, very wrong. As such, I would say, priority should be getting the right school for them as people.

[laurenceneville]

It isn't the case for me but I have to say that if my DS wasn't all that fussed about being with boys and didn't like rough and tumble, I wouldn't send him to a boys school. Pastoral is excellent at the schools from what I consistently read, but if he fundamentally won't thrive in that sort of environment and you have a choice, and you can afford private the decision seems easier. Their personality and where they will feel most comfortable I would say is more important than academic results. If they are relaxed, they will flourish anywhere. One of my DCs was at a grammar school and it went wrong, very wrong. As such, I would say, priority should be getting the right school for them as people.

No, the boys schools are out of the running for that reason. The choice is Crypt or private. Perhaps the logical thing to do (given that no decision comes with complete certainty about what will happen) is to choose the Crypt and then move him after a year if it doesn't work. But then, part of me thinks 'If I think it isn't going to work, why put him through that for a year'?